[HeinzGuderian]

Originally posted by Arclite!
His recent brilliant play with Team USA is more indicative of the kind of player Stephon is than his performances with his horrible supporting casts in the NBA.

I didnt watch either of the Turkey games, but unless you are being sarcastic, he must of been incredible in them

[Yyzlin]

Originally posted by futuristxen!


I think he passed Pierce last year, he should have been on the all-star team over Pierce. Pierce is fat and lazy. He's regressing.

Even though Pierce's game is slowly regressing, he still was clearly the better player last year. Despite the precipitous drop that his FG% has taken over the last two years, Pierce is more efficient by a significant margin than James, at a higher volume. While James is the better and more creative passer, Pierce was able to post similar APG numbers while also offsetting that by being a superior rebounder. Defensively, Pierce also has the advantage. It's just hard to spin James as the better player right now.

[JNice]

Originally posted by Whodinee!


but dismissing championships and team success while evaluating a player is not wise... would jordan still be the GOAT had he never won a championship? or in other sports, take Dan Marino, statistically he blows every other QB out of the water but nobody considers him the definitive best QB ever because he doesnt have a ring.

my point is, if you are saying two players are on an equal plane without looking at team accomplishments, then factor in one guy has 3 rings while the other has no significant team success doesnt the balance inherently tip in the favor of the guy with the rings

rhetorical question

I certainly dont think completely dismissing championships would be logical. But, when you are comparing one guy versus another as individual players, it really only makes sense to bring something like championships into the argument if they are on teams that at least somewhat close to the same level.

It is pretty obvious looking at what Bryant has had to work with as opposed to what Tmac has that Bryant's team accomplishments would be much better. I don't think there is one single player in the history of the league that could have carried that Orlando team to title, especially the last couple years as the team's talent has gotten progressively worse since Tmac got there.

[gdog]

KB8 without a doubt.

[JNice]

Just for those who seem to think the Kobe vs Tmac argument is a wash one way or the other, it obviously isnt and hasn't been since there are probably 300 pages worth of threads arguing between these two. If there was any sort of definite answer either way, the argument wouldn't continue on like it has.

[hobojoe]

Originally posted by JNice!
Just for those who seem to think the Kobe vs Tmac argument is a wash one way or the other, it obviously isnt and hasn't been since there are probably 300 pages worth of threads arguing between these two. If there was any sort of definite answer either way, the argument wouldn't continue on like it has.

Well, then again there were quite a few long "Alvin Williams Hall of Fame" threads that were going strong until they got closed.

[shobe42]

Even TMac just recently said he wants to get to the level of "a Kobe Bryant"

he said ''thats who he's chasing''

[Captain Obvious]

Originally posted by shobe42!
Even TMac just recently said he wants to get to the level of "a Kobe Bryant"

he said ''thats who he's chasing''

He was referring to the championships that Kobe has. I'm pretty sure T-Mac's honest opinion is he's a better individual player than Kobe.

[Minstrel]

Originally posted by shobe42!
Even TMac just recently said he wants to get to the level of "a Kobe Bryant"

he said ''thats who he's chasing''

He didn't mention any part of Kobe's game or abilities. He simply referred to the championships. Therefore, it's logical to conclude that he is chasing the titles Kobe has, which is not an individual ability, but a team accomplishment.

Jordan often talked about chasing "those guys" (Bird and Magic) because they had titles and he didn't. Knowing Jordan and his competitiveness, I doubt he meant he felt that he was inferior as a player. Just that he wanted that accomplishment and the accolades that go with it.

I read McGrady's comment the same way.