[felka]

Originally posted by <b>Zalgirinis</b>!


Reading all this stuff kflo and Catarino writes without seeing Sabas before NBA (or seeing not enough) makes me very frustrated, so I better stay out than write smth on hot blood

Anyway about Robinson. Watch this clip. Its already 1992, Barcelona, Dream Team and Sabas after injuries.

http://microtron.ktu.edu/~greendeath/Sabas-Robinson.avi

Don't waste your time Zalgirinis-99% of americans haven't seem Sabonis playing befoure injuries, and dominant basketball for them is brainless bodybuylders-alike with diamond earings and dope in the pockets running, jumping and dumping, who don't need shoot, pass or think. They even reelected W. Bush-how smart nation it can be ( even after seeng movie 9/11-Farengheit). You , me and people who saw him playing before injuries-will always know that he was best center ever played.

[kflo]

Originally posted by <b>felka</b>!


Don't waste your time Zalgirinis-99% of americans haven't seem Sabonis playing befoure injuries, and dominant basketball for them is brainless bodybuylders-alike with diamond earings and dope in the pockets running, jumping and dumping, who don't need shoot, pass or think. They even reelected W. Bush-how smart nation it can be ( even after seeng movie 9/11-Farengheit). You , me and people who saw him playing before injuries-will always know that he was best center ever played.

here to make friends, huh?

is it so personally insulting to feel that sabonis' greatness was too untested (and fleeting) to declare him the greatest ever?

i can argue that earl "the goat" manigault was the greatest player ever, i can quote others who swear he was as well (other actual greats who played against him), but it will do little to convince most, because he never played at the highest level, and never accomplished what others did.

not sure why i'm answering a post that's so insulting, but what the heck.

[felka]

Originally posted by <b>kflo</b>!


here to make friends, huh?

is it so personally insulting to feel that sabonis' greatness was too untested (and fleeting) to declare him the greatest ever?

i can argue that earl "the goat" manigault was the greatest player ever, i can quote others who swear he was as well (other actual greats who played against him), but it will do little to convince most, because he never played at the highest level, and never accomplished what others did.

not sure why i'm answering a post that's so insulting, but what the heck.

Why is it insulting ?

[Pan Mengtu]

Originally posted by <b>felka</b>!


Why is it insulting ?

Probably because you allowed your emotions to get the best of you and insult an entire nation because you don't agree with what someone said about a basketball player. Just a guess, though.

[PauloCatarino]

Originally posted by <b>felka</b>!


Don't be so jelous portugal kid-some day portugal maybe will have basketball player who gan play good basketball , keep hoping and praying.

wanna talk soccer, then?

[HKF]

Originally posted by <b>felka</b>!


Don't waste your time Zalgirinis-99% of americans haven't seem Sabonis playing befoure injuries, and dominant basketball for them is brainless bodybuylders-alike with diamond earings and dope in the pockets running, jumping and dumping, who don't need shoot, pass or think. They even reelected W. Bush-how smart nation it can be ( even after seeng movie 9/11-Farengheit). You , me and people who saw him playing before injuries-will always know that he was best center ever played.

What does this have to do with basketball? More of this anti-American junk, even when discussing the game of basketball. Some of you international posters astound me with your ignorance.

[John]

I like Felka. I want to be hated like Felka.

NO JOHN I CANT LET YOU GET AWAY WITH THAT ONE

BEEZ

[Midnight_Marauder]

Originally posted by <b>felka</b>!


Don't waste your time Zalgirinis-99% of americans haven't seem Sabonis playing befoure injuries, and dominant basketball for them is brainless bodybuylders-alike with diamond earings and dope in the pockets running, jumping and dumping, who don't need shoot, pass or think. They even reelected W. Bush-how smart nation it can be ( even after seeng movie 9/11-Farengheit). You , me and people who saw him playing before injuries-will always know that he was best center ever played.

At least Americans can spell "seen", "seeing" and "Fahrenheit"........just playin with ya.

But anyways....Yeah he probably could of been dominant if he had played earlier....But it will always be a "what if" situation......Kind of like "what if" Griffey would of stayed healthy or "what if" Grant Hill would of been healthy his whole career....

[mvblair]

I don't know how this idea that the NBA has had and always will have the greatest players in the world came up. There were so many great players outside the NBA in the 1980s who could have been superstars: Nikos Galis (Greece) ("I've seen Galis doing things that I have not seen neither Lakers nor Celtics doing." - Bob MacAdoo), Oscar Schmidt (Brazil) ("The guys today couldn't play on our teams, Oscar." - Charles Barkley), Kresimir Cosic (Croatia), Fernando Martin (Spain), etc, etc. But the NBA is not the beginning or the end of basketball. Just because a player didn't play in the NBA doesn't mean that he cannot be considered the best player.

We (US Americans) are a very ethnocentric people. We believe that the NBA has and always will have the greatest players. We believed that nobody would touch our 2004 Olympic team...

...about Sabonis:

For those of you that want to learn more about Arvydas Sabonis, I suggest you check out the following links:

• InterBasket.Net Lithuania Forum - tons of great stories and histories
• The Sabonis Network
• Everything Sabonis

It's difficult to find statistics about the young Sabonis. On the internet, you can see references to USA/USSR games where Sabas dropped 31 points against Scott Skiles, Kenny Walker, and other NBA players...when Sabas was 17-years-old. I could site dozens of games against US players where Sabonis dominated. There are a lot of fun facts and videos about him against NBA stars: how he blocked Michael Jordan twice in Barcelona, Charles Barkley twice, and David Robinson once...in the same game.

Pete Newell is one of the best developers of "big men" in the United States. Before he cut down his workload, Newell started working with international players. In 1984, Newell said this of Sabonis: "I saw Sabonis make an unforgettable play last year in a tournament in Hiroshima, Japan. A rebound bounced high off the rim and over toward the corner. Sabonis went up for it way out there, took the ball in one hand and--still up in the air, off balance-- swept the ball backhand, like a discus thrower in reverse, and hit a teammate in stride downcourt eighty-six feet away for an easy layup. I'd never seen a play like it. The only problem with Sabonis is that he'll never have an opportunity to play against the best professionals in the world, unless of course he defects to the United States."

And that is why Sabonis couldn't come play. After the Cold War politics boiled over in the early '90s and Lithuania declared independence from the USSR, Sabonis was injured. He spent some time in Portland recovering, but was stuck in big contracts for Real Madrid.

Newell also said this: "According to my information, it was in Lithuania that he first saw NBA games [on television]. They [the Lithuanians] picked them up [on TV waves] from Finland. He modeled his game on Abdul-Jabbar's, and you can see it in his shooting touch, but he can do so many other things. In fact, he does one thing I've never seen before: he catches passes in the post with one hand. With the other he checks his defensive man. Then he pivots whichever way the defensive pressure dictates." Again, that was in 1984. And Newell is not the kind of coach who gives praise to players.

Bill Walton, a TV commentator who is often times wrong about his comments, but usually right-on with his overall assesment of players said this of Sabonis in 1985: "Every time I've seen him play he's been awesome. I don't understand why some team just doesn't give him a million dollars and get him over here. Sabonis would be a star in the NBA right away. I can't think of one guy in the league who reminds me of Sabonis. He can do it all."

An article from Sports Illustrated in 1988 said that when Sabonis got a 3 month VISA to go to Portland, he broke every single strength training and weight-lifting record in the NBA. That same article tells an interesting rumour of the day: Sabonis was actively being recruited by universities several years earlier. Many collegiate scouts saw Sabonis play with his club Zalgiris, when they toured Europe, and were thus enamoured with him. Louisiana State coaches spent time talking with Sabonis privately in a hotel. All of that is fact. The rumour says that members of the KGB cut Sabonis' ankle tendons, which eventually became the crux of his injuries, because the KGB did not want him to leave the USSR.

In 1995, when he first played in the NBA at age 31, his opponents immediately respected him. The media said he wouldn't last longer than a year in the NBA. David Robinson said "I wouldn't expect him to get rattled out there [in the NBA]. He's played a lot of international basketball. He's played in games where it's more football than basketball." But he stayed until 2002, when he opted to leave despite receiving numerous multi-million dollar contract offers in the NBA.

Sabas is like two other internationally recognized sports celebraties: Oh Sadaharu of Japan and Oscar Schmidt of Brazil. Oh had more homeruns playing in the Japanese professional baseball leagues than any player in the world. Oscar Schmidt scored 10,000 more points than the closest NBA professional (Kareem Abdul-Jabbar) during his career in Europe. Yet, we don't pay much attention to them, because they weren't in the MLB or NBA. It's like ignoring the accomplishments of the great Negro League baseball players Josh Gibson (who scored more homeruns than anyone in the MLB) or Satchel Paige.

I've written a lot, I'm sorry , but my point is this: Arvydas Sabonis is one of the greatest basketball players in the world. I believe that he is on the same level as other great centers like Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. It's no coincindence that so many current players love and admire Sabonis' game.

I don't know if Sabonis is the best center ever. I don't think anybody is the best. Every great center has ups and downs, and it is difficult to decide who is the best center ever. Sabonis, without a doubt, is in that handful of great centers: Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlin, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.

The evidence that I have for that is as follows:

• Sabonis has won dozens of championships and Gold medals on a varietyof levels He did not win an NBA championship, that's true, but the NBA is not the beginning or the end of basketball.
• I have seen games in which Sabonis dominated. I have read game recaps in which Sabonis dominated. Even against the best players that the United States had, Sabonis dominated.
• Accounts from the his prime-years suggest only that he was a phenomenal talent. Not a prospect--a talent. His opponents, his opponents' coaches, on-looking coaches, team-mates, and fans have simply been in awe of him. Everyone from David Robinson to Pete Newell to Vladimir Tkachenko admitted to witnessing his sheer power and ability.
• So many of the worlds brightest young players from the '90s and today admire and try to copy Sabonis. Yao Ming loves Sabonis. Shaquille O'Neal admits to buying old videos of Sabonis when he was at LSU.
• Basketball minds have nothing but admiration for him. As I said, the best coaches of the world simply admired him. If somebody doesn't think Pete Newell knew basketball inside and out, than that person will never be convinced that the Earth revolves around the sun.

It's difficult and subjective to rank the greatest centers in basketball, but you cannot leave Sabonis off that list simply because Cold-War politics prevented him from joining the NBA.

Matt

[Crazy Fan From Idaho]

Awesome post, Matt!!!

Was Sabonis the very best center ever? Who knows? Who cares?

Was Sabonis an awesome player? Absolutely.

Would Portland have won several titles if he had come earlier? Without a doubt.

Personally, what I admire about Sabonis goes far beyond his performance on the court. He is well-deservedly loved and respected by his countrymen for the many things he has done for the youth of Lithuania in establishing his BB school and for keeping his promise to return to play for his hometown team of Zalgiris. I'm not Lithuanian so it is not really my place to go into all of that, but you don't have to be Lith to see that he is a very honorable gentleman as well as a phenomenal player.

To me, Sabonis will always be a champion.

JEGA!!!!!

[felka]

Originally posted by <b>mvblair</b>!
I don't know how this idea that the NBA has had and always will have the greatest players in the world came up. There were so many great players outside the NBA in the 1980s who could have been superstars: Nikos Galis (Greece) ("I've seen Galis doing things that I have not seen neither Lakers nor Celtics doing." - Bob MacAdoo), Oscar Schmidt (Brazil) ("The guys today couldn't play on our teams, Oscar." - Charles Barkley), Kresimir Cosic (Croatia), Fernando Martin (Spain), etc, etc. But the NBA is not the beginning or the end of basketball. Just because a player didn't play in the NBA doesn't mean that he cannot be considered the best player.

We (US Americans) are a very ethnocentric people. We believe that the NBA has and always will have the greatest players. We believed that nobody would touch our 2004 Olympic team...

...about Sabonis:

For those of you that want to learn more about Arvydas Sabonis, I suggest you check out the following links:

• InterBasket.Net Lithuania Forum - tons of great stories and histories
• The Sabonis Network
• Everything Sabonis

It's difficult to find statistics about the young Sabonis. On the internet, you can see references to USA/USSR games where Sabas dropped 31 points against Scott Skiles, Kenny Walker, and other NBA players...when Sabas was 17-years-old. I could site dozens of games against US players where Sabonis dominated. There are a lot of fun facts and videos about him against NBA stars: how he blocked Michael Jordan twice in Barcelona, Charles Barkley twice, and David Robinson once...in the same game.

Pete Newell is one of the best developers of "big men" in the United States. Before he cut down his workload, Newell started working with international players. In 1984, Newell said this of Sabonis: "I saw Sabonis make an unforgettable play last year in a tournament in Hiroshima, Japan. A rebound bounced high off the rim and over toward the corner. Sabonis went up for it way out there, took the ball in one hand and--still up in the air, off balance-- swept the ball backhand, like a discus thrower in reverse, and hit a teammate in stride downcourt eighty-six feet away for an easy layup. I'd never seen a play like it. The only problem with Sabonis is that he'll never have an opportunity to play against the best professionals in the world, unless of course he defects to the United States."

And that is why Sabonis couldn't come play. After the Cold War politics boiled over in the early '90s and Lithuania declared independence from the USSR, Sabonis was injured. He spent some time in Portland recovering, but was stuck in big contracts for Real Madrid.

Newell also said this: "According to my information, it was in Lithuania that he first saw NBA games [on television]. They [the Lithuanians] picked them up [on TV waves] from Finland. He modeled his game on Abdul-Jabbar's, and you can see it in his shooting touch, but he can do so many other things. In fact, he does one thing I've never seen before: he catches passes in the post with one hand. With the