[kflo]

and i do appreciate matt's post - great info, particularly the quotes about sabonis.

[Ryoga]

As much as I love Sabonis, I also think that some people exaggerate when speaking about him.
I'll summarize here my opinions, hopefully as objective as possible:

• Sabonis was the best center in the world between 85 and 89, when healthy, and he was a better prospect than young Olajuwon, young Ewing and young Robinson.
• Sabonis in his prime wasn't as good as Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem or Shaq in their primes. Why? Because his phisical prime was too distant from the moment he reached full maturity as a player! At that point he was still a player with a lot of room for improvement.
• Sabonis could have become the best center of all time... had he stayed healthy. As we've seen young Akeem progress to Hakeem the Dream, as we've seen '95 Shaq becoming the MDE in 2000, we would have likely seen a mature Sabonis in his late 20s with 80% of his phisical skills but with all the smarts and all the experience to be arguably an all time best. The sad part is that such a player never really existed...

[mvblair]

Thanks for the complements, guys. I really appreciate what everybody said; that makes me feel like the time I put in writing it was worth it.

Well, I can't convince all of you. I know that and I respect those of you who are willing to at least listen.

Ryoga, I disagree with something you said. I think Sabonis was a mature player even in his early 20s (the mid '80s). In '88 he won the Gold, and he had already been competing at the highest level in Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union. I think he was emotionally and mentally prepared to dominate the game in his early 20s. I understand what you're saying, but I disagree.

Kflo, good point about the Ralph Sampson comparison. But the 17-year-old Sabonis was playing against the best collegiate players that we had: David Robinson, Mitch Richmond, Scott Skiles, Kenny Walker, Danny Manning, and yes, even Ralph Sampson. In 1982, the Soviet Junior Team made a tour of US universities, including Sampson's University of Virginia team. "Sabonis clearly outplayed Sampson in that game," according to Bill Wall of USA Basketball. Sabonis scored 20 points and 14 rebounds that game. (Sampson had 13 points and 24 rebounds, spending the entire game trying to check Sabonis on the block). Sampson was the first draft pick the next year for the NBA. If teams were able to draft Sabonis, he very well might have been picked first after that tour.

And Paulo, my dear Paulo, have you no solidarity with your Brazilian brothers with your comments about Oscar? Well, I don't think his defense was bad, I mean, it certainly wasn't Bruce-Bowen-Giving-Kobe-a-Nightmare defense, but it wasn't terrible...But if you can score like he could, do you really need to play defense?

Anyhow, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Actually, I think most of you agree that Sabonis was one of the top centers in the world (in or out of the NBA), but some of you are not convinced that he could have been as dominant in the NBA as he was internationally, and in Soviet and European competition.

Matt

[PauloCatarino]

Originally posted by <b>kflo</b>!


shucks, paulo. thx.

i was drunk when i posted that... and you KNOW IT!

[PauloCatarino]

Originally posted by <b>mvblair</b>!

And Paulo, my dear Paulo, have you no solidarity with your Brazilian brothers with your comments about Oscar? Well, I don't think his defense was bad, I mean, it certainly wasn't Bruce-Bowen-Giving-Kobe-a-Nightmare defense, but it wasn't terrible...But if you can score like he could, do you really need to play defense?

I loved Oscar. He was killing teams way past his 40th anniversay, i believe... The guy was outstanding.. and yes, in his prime, he was not a terrible defender...

I guess my gripe with Oscar was that, eventhough he played good enough in International competition and the Italian League (the League where a too-old-to-play-in-the-NBA-McAdoo-was-a-superstar), he never consistently faced the best players in the world (NBA comp.).

But he was a marvel to watch, no doubt...