[Pioneer10]

Originally posted by Pan Mengtu!
I disagree that he'll ever be one of the best players to ever play the game. I think he'll eventually be the best in the game, but never get close to being one of the best of all time. Because of his jumpshooting ability, or lack thereof.

Good shooters don't develop with time. Larry Bird was always a great shooter. Michael Jordan always was. Kobe Bryant was always a very good (never has been great though) shooter. I don't see LeBron going from a pretty bad shooter to a truely great one. At best, he might be able to be as good as a Kobe or T-Mac, but I doubt that as well. That would eliminate the possibility of him being a top10 player of all time. But besides that, I can see him as the greatest player in the game when he hits his peak. But not GOAT material like some people seem to think.

What?!!!? Magic Johnson the one player you fail to mention who I think and also probably most people on this board think regard as an all time TOP 5 player and he is the one past great Lebron is most like. Magic never had a great jump shot but he was hands down one the best ever. When Magic came in the league he was a lot like Lebron is right now: big, athletic (remember that dunk in the NCAA title game), good dribbler, and a great passer. Again he improved his shot a lot through hard work but was never someone who you would call a great shooter. Jordan also worked tremendously hard on his shot. He was not a great shooter when he first started

[EHL]

Jordan didn't perfect his fade away until his prime, and didn't have a good mid-range game until about 25 or 26. LeBron has lots of time, but does he have Jordan-like work ethic? Unfortunately, we'll have to wait and see.

[futuristxen]

Originally posted by Pan Mengtu!
I disagree that he'll ever be one of the best players to ever play the game. I think he'll eventually be the best in the game, but never get close to being one of the best of all time. Because of his jumpshooting ability, or lack thereof.

Good shooters don't develop with time. Larry Bird was always a great shooter. Michael Jordan always was. Kobe Bryant was always a very good (never has been great though) shooter. I don't see LeBron going from a pretty bad shooter to a truely great one. At best, he might be able to be as good as a Kobe or T-Mac, but I doubt that as well. That would eliminate the possibility of him being a top10 player of all time. But besides that, I can see him as the greatest player in the game when he hits his peak. But not GOAT material like some people seem to think.

If you can't improve your jumpshot, then why does Lebron's jumpshot look better this season from last, and last season from high school?

One thing I'd like to add to this thread is...anyone see his post moves tonight? DAMN! He has some sick moves in the post right now. He just needs to do a better job of holding his position and the Cavs need to be looking for him in the post quicker.


And his defense is definitely improved. which was something EHL and others said they wanted to look for. I only saw him get beat once, on that in bounds play where he got picked off. But besides that, he closed out on his man great. And against the Pacers even though Artest had a big game, Lebron was definitely contesting the shots.

Also, his passing is sick.

All of that said. Why not throw up a Dwayne Wade thread? There's like a hundred of Lebron threads on this topic. Dwayne had a helluva game against Eric Snow. He shook him all over the floor. Could he be better than Kobe with Shaq?

[EHL]

Pan, you could say the exact same thing about Jordan at 19 at NC.

[Drewbs]

Originally posted by Pan Mengtu!

Good shooters don't develop with time. Larry Bird was always a great shooter. Michael Jordan always was. Kobe Bryant was always a very good (never has been great though) shooter. I don't see LeBron going from a pretty bad shooter to a truely great one. At best, he might be able to be as good as a Kobe or T-Mac, but I doubt that as well. That would eliminate the possibility of him being a top10 player of all time. But besides that, I can see him as the greatest player in the game when he hits his peak. But not GOAT material like some people seem to think.

Yes they do.

Magic when he first came into the league couldn't shoot. Michael couldn't either. He just came to the NBA and dunked on everyone. Jumpshooting requires a lot of practice. James' form is pretty good, he needs to stop fading away and square up better, but he has a nice high release, a lot of arc and rotation. When your form is good, all you need to improve your shooting is a lot of practice. As for him being as good as Kobe in terms of shooting. Kobe is just about the best midrange shooter in the game, Tmac's midrange jumpshot isn't quite as good but he has better range.

[futuristxen]

Originally posted by EHL!
LeBron has lots of time, but does he have Jordan-like work ethic? Unfortunately, we'll have to wait and see.

I think you take one look at that body at 19 and it's pretty clear that Lebron has a better than Jordan ethic so far. It's just about keeping it up.

[Arclite]

Michael Redd was a terrible shooter. With enough work and with good form, almost anyone can become a good jumpshooter.

[EHL]

Originally posted by futuristxen!


I think you take one look at that body at 19 and it's pretty clear that Lebron has a better than Jordan ethic so far. It's just about keeping it up.

Work ethic is more than body building. I'm talking about working on his game, focusing on personal goals over a long period of time, developing consistency on and off the court, staying away from distractions like money, learning to cope with failure, etc. The best players of all time didn't just know these things, they learned them and worked hard on them.

Saying he has a better-than-Jordan work ethic is completely unprovable, at the moment.

[Pinball]

Originally posted by futuristxen!
All of that said. Why not throw up a Dwayne Wade thread? There's like a hundred of Lebron threads on this topic. Dwayne had a helluva game against Eric Snow. He shook him all over the floor. Could he be better than Kobe with Shaq?

I don't know about him being better than Kobe but Wade does remind me of a young (as if he's old) Kobe Bryant. His first step in incredible and he's easily among the best finishers in the game. Still, his jumper leaves something to be desired. Right now it's all about getting to the rim for Wade.

[HeinzGuderian]

Originally posted by futuristxen!


I think you take one look at that body at 19 and it's pretty clear that Lebron has a better than Jordan ethic so far. It's just about keeping it up.

So the speed of physical maturation = work ethic?

[VincentVega]

Originally posted by EHL!
LeBron has lots of time, but does he have Jordan-like work ethic? Unfortunately, we'll have to wait and see.

Great question. That said, was Jordan ever 6'8", 240?