[bballlife]

Originally Posted by EHL

I agree with this. But I think the original post was asking who do you believe is the better player, i.e. individually. Right now it's close offensively, slight edge to LeBron, with a pretty decent gap defensively in favor of Kobe. Though assuming natural development and growth through coaching, I expect LeBron to be the better player within a few years, mainly through improvement on his on-the-ball defense.

Its going to take more than improving his on-the-ball defense to be better than Kobe. The only way that is going to happen is Lebron really putting in the work to maximize his potential. And I don't think its a good sign when one of the first things Brendan Malone did when he took over was talk to each player individually and mention to Lebron that his practice habits need to improve. (This was according to TNT, talking about it during the game tonight)

[EHL]

Originally Posted by bballlife

Its going to take more than improving his on-the-ball defense to be better than Kobe. The only way that is going to happen is Lebron really putting in the work to maximize his potential. And I don't think its a good sign when one of the first things Brendan Malone did when he took over was talk to each player individually and mention to Lebron that his practice habits need to improve. (This was according to TNT, talking about it during the game tonight)

Good point, it remains to be seen how consistent he is with his work ethic. But IMO he's young enough where I believe he can still improve upon that part of his approach to basketball. He has an incredible NBA body, you have to believe he puts the time in at the gym, and all reports say he does. Really, this is the first I've heard of LeBron having any trouble in practice, though it sounds as if it's a stamina thing (playing so many minutes, having a ton of responsibilities) more than anything else.

[SeaNet]

Originally Posted by bballlife

Its going to take more than improving his on-the-ball defense to be better than Kobe. The only way that is going to happen is Lebron really putting in the work to maximize his potential. And I don't think its a good sign when one of the first things Brendan Malone did when he took over was talk to each player individually and mention to Lebron that his practice habits need to improve. (This was according to TNT, talking about it during the game tonight)

I'm not saying that Malone's statement is a good thing. But we are talking about a kid in his second year out of high school who has already resurrected a dead franchise and become a 25-7-7 guy, and someone people talk about as a legitimate MVP candidate. If he can do that w/ a subpar work ethic, that's ****ing amazing. And also, if you come into the league and do what Lebron is doing at his age, its not surprising that you need to be reminded to practice more. Things appear to be coming so easily for him that its no surprise if his eye wanders off the prize. Its his responsibility to get back on the ball, but hey, he's 20.

[Sir Patchwork]

Originally Posted by bballlife

Its going to take more than improving his on-the-ball defense to be better than Kobe.

I agree with this. I don't think entire defenses are triggered in to stop LeBron the same way they are for Kobe. It's not as necessary for defenses to key in on players who are incredibly versatile, but also don't dominate in any one way. Defenses know that if they aren't on their toes, Kobe will hit them with 20-30 points in a quarter, because Kobe won't hold back when it comes to putting the ball in the hoop. LeBron has a more balanced attack, but it also doesn't draw as much attention from multiple defenders because he doesn't have a consistent habit of wanting to score or wanting to pass, he blends them well. I'd say Kobe has a slight edge overall on the offensive end, and a decent margin on the defensive end. If LeBron improves his range and consistency on his outside shot as well as his defense, he'll pass Kobe.

[duncan2k5]

come on, how can you say kobe is better offensively when lebron's numbers are better generally? he scores about 2 less poins while shooting a way better percentage. that's way more efficient. Lebron has done a better job on leading his team and i think his teammates like and respect him more than kobe's does. and this defense thing with kobe is WAY overrated, especially this season. kobe has been playing horrible defense. plus he has tanked it too many times in the fourth quarter, which is supposedly "kobe time." and i dont know what games you akk watch but kobe isnt always double tamed on the perimeter, its usually when he drives to the bucket the defense collapses, just like they do with lebron. everyone thinks lebron is covered 1-on-1 all the time and when he drives to the basket he is all alone which is not true at all...the kid is just that good.

[IV]

Originally Posted by duncan2k5

who do you all think is having the better season? i think Lebron because he has better overall stats and he has accomplished more this season than kobe. i think kobe only leads in points by 2, and blocks by a few.

You would think that.

Lebron was outstanding last night, and he's having a great season. Forget the stats, and watch him play he's leading that team without much help, same with Kobe. Individually, they have been spectacular. IMO, these are easily the two best all court players in the game.

[IV]

Originally Posted by duncan2k5

Lebron has done a better job on leading his team

How so?

i think his teammates like and respect him more than kobe's does.

Why do you think this? Is it because this is what you would prefer to believe without any reasoning one way or the other? Could you be blindly speculating? Or is there something that Kobe's teammates have said or done to lead you to believe they don't like him?

this defense thing with kobe is WAY overrated, especially this season. kobe has been playing horrible defense.

You realize no one can argee that Kobe has played horrible defense this season? Only someone with a subjective bias opinion.

plus he has tanked it too many times in the fourth quarter, which is supposedly "kobe time." and i dont know what games you akk watch but kobe isnt always double tamed on the perimeter, its usually when he drives to the bucket the defense collapses, just like they do with lebron. everyone thinks lebron is covered 1-on-1 all the time and when he drives to the basket he is all alone which is not true at all...the kid is just that good.

You're overstating Lebron's defensive pressure and understating Kobe's. They both face about the same defensive skemes since they are the only focal points on their teams. Kobe's has won game in the 4th this season, more than he's tanked. And Lebron has had some poor 4th quarter performances as well.

[Pioneer10]

What a joke? Lebron's jumper was crap last year and now it is a strength. I guess he didn't put in any effort of the summer for that. It was just part of his physical gifts. Lebron does work at his game hard from all accounts. Could he still improve maybe practice habits sure but to say he hasn't shown the ability to work at his game is a falsehood.

And this whole thing about defenses being geared to stop Kobe then Lebron. Give me a break and watch the Cavs opponents double team Lebron as hard as anybody and force him to give up the ball. When his teammates hit wide open looks (like yesterday) the Cavs can beat any team in the league. The problem is the Cavs are as deeply flawed team as the Lakers. Whereas as the Lakers have good talent with their perimeter positions the Cavs have the inside edge. Unfortunately, for people who like to think the Cavs are more talented then the Lakers look at the guards of the Cavs. Only two times has the SG for Cavs scored more then 15 points. That's right two times.

Overall, on offense though because of his passing ability it is already much harder to double team Lebron then Kobe as Kobe still tends to overdribble then Lebron. He certainly inserted his will on Detroit in the fourth with passes and jumpers. In short, Lebron at 20 is already a better offensive player then Kobe

On defense Kobe has an edge but Kobe is an overrated defender. He's done a good job on Redd this year but beyond that he hasn't really impressed me with his on the ball defense this year. Allen, Wade, Tmac, etc have been able to score at their usual efficieny against the Lakers. I bet it's because being the number one option he can't concentrate on his defense as in the past

[Pioneer10]

Originally Posted by duncan2k5

come on, how can you say kobe is better offensively when lebron's numbers are better generally? he scores about 2 less poins while shooting a way better percentage. that's way more efficient. Lebron has done a better job on leading his team and i think his teammates like and respect him more than kobe's does. and this defense thing with kobe is WAY overrated, especially this season. kobe has been playing horrible defense. plus he has tanked it too many times in the fourth quarter, which is supposedly "kobe time." and i dont know what games you akk watch but kobe isnt always double tamed on the perimeter, its usually when he drives to the bucket the defense collapses, just like they do with lebron. everyone thinks lebron is covered 1-on-1 all the time and when he drives to the basket he is all alone which is not true at all...the kid is just that good.

In terms of statistics Lebron is clearly having a better season. He's scoring is 1.9 points less but his FG%(48.2 vs 42.9), 3pt FG%, and PPFGA (Lebron 1.121, KB 1.117) are much better then Kobe's. In addition Lebron is getting 1.1 rebounds and 1.2 more assists more then Bryant while having less turnovers (.87 less then Bryant). So overall Lebron's efficiency is a staggeringly higher then Kobe (28.06 vs. 24.62)