[MemphisX]

Originally Posted by socco

You realize he nearly unanimously won that MVP award, right? If I remember correctly there were 3 people who didn't vote for him out of 121 or so. And one of them didn't because he thought since he was from Chicago he deserved an interview with Garnett his rookie season, but was rejected. And Marion was the 3rd best player on his team, Garnett was clearly the best, that's not even close to the same. And how is KG's horrible supporting cast bull****? Because it explains why he hasn't had as much success as you'd expect for somebody of his caliber, and you don't want to accept that because you dislike him? Please. I don't even know why I have these discussions, it's the same people saying the same idiotic things over and over and over again. What's the point even?

lol, and "The MAMBA" repped you for that post. sad.

So the voters are uninformed and got caught up in a good story. It doesn't mean he deserved the MVP. The proof is in the pudding, Sam Cassell comes on the team and has a career year and the team goes to never before seen heights while KG's numbers are basically the same. The team is immediately bounced from the playoffs when Sam I Am is hurt. The next season Sam is hurt again and the team misses the playoffs...check their record when Sam was able to play at least 30 minutes. KGs numbers still about the same and the team goes from top dog to missing the playoffs. Hey but it was the "cancers" right? Cancers cut and the team is even worse with not even a threat to make the playoffs and this is with the rebirth of Wally...KGs numbers about the same, however said "cancer" is piloting another squad to never before seen heights. Hmmmm......

KG is not an impact player and - admit that I just started seeing it last season when the Grizzlies beat the Wolves and I could not recall a single significant thing KG did the entire game, heck everyone I was with came out thinking PG had dominated KG but come to find out KG had put up some crazy numbers like 25/13/6 or something. He is a stat factory. He is no different then AK47. It is really hard to explain but when you see it you understand. Defenses just don't react to him like they do other superstars and that makes a difference. You don't have to waste your best post defender on him because he isn't going down low. He is not a big threat from the outside so he doesn't create space that way either. It is really hard to put in words but Shaq can have 16/8 that has a much more on the court effect then KGs 25/14 because of the defenses concentration. You can blow it off as hating on KG and that is cool but Minnesota is never going to anything with KG and a decidedly lesser player and they haven't been. I mean KGs supporting cast now is not title worthy but they should be in the thick of the playoff race except he is just not as good as you think.

[KDOS]

Originally Posted by ralaw

Would you say KG is a hyped up Shawn Marion? Great stats, but should they be considered as you say, "a cut throat, clutch, volume scorer" who carries your team?

Hyped up? KG is way past his stages of hype...He's a proven AllStar, a worthy MVP in the league.


Difference between KG and Marion, is a Shaw Marion needs a Steve Nash and a D'Antoni offense to be more efficient while a KG can virtually fit in any system.

[MLKG]

Originally Posted by MemphisX

So the voters are uninformed and got caught up in a good story. It doesn't mean he deserved the MVP. The proof is in the pudding, Sam Cassell comes on the team and has a career year and the team goes to never before seen heights while KG's numbers are basically the same. The team is immediately bounced from the playoffs when Sam I Am is hurt. The next season Sam is hurt again and the team misses the playoffs...check their record when Sam was able to play at least 30 minutes.

You really really have no idea what you are talking about.

The reason the Wolves played well with Sam and the Clippers are now playing well with Sam is simple. He's a smart point guard. He knows that when you have a dominant big guy, you help them dominate.

He plays well with big guys. That doesn't make him the best player on the team though. It just makes him a smart player.

The Clippers aren't going to make the playoffs this year because of Sam Cassell. They are going to make the playoffs because of Elton Brand.

You can't compare a guy like Kobe to a guy like Garnett because one is a guard and one is a big man.

Kobe can adjust his style of play to the type of team he has around him because he has the ball in his hands more than anyone else on the team.

Big guys need other players to get them the ball and they need them to get them the ball in the right spot. That's what Sam Cassell does well. If you have bonehead teammates like Kevin Garnett has this year and like Elton Brand always has in the past, you can't just adjust because you still rely on those teammates to make the right play. If they are not doing it they are not doing it and you can't change that.

I find it amazing that anybody can watch Kevin Garnett (and Elton Brand in the past) play and call them "losers" or "stat players". It really just makes you look stupid.

[socco]

Originally Posted by PauloCatarino

Locco, I loves ya.

You are, without the shadow of a doubt, the most passionated poster around regarding favourite players who:
a) don't result in ridiculous jock-riding;
b) provides semi-rational arguments.

You get my props.

Wow, that's like the nicest thing you've ever said to me. Thanks!

Originally Posted by PauloCatarino

Still, i have one question for ya:

Minnesotta is a strange fanchise: Kevin McHale was knowned as one of the greatest post players around, owner of a million moves in the paint (all unstoppable), and knowned as ablack-hole: he wouldn't give the ball.

KG (and it's a knock on him) is the opposite: eventhough he was blessed with great athleticism and girth, he seems desinterested in dominating down low.

Locco, don't you think that if KG had a little McHale on him, he would be a better player?

I'm not a great NBA historian like yourself, so I don't really know much about McHale. But I guess you're pretty much asking if KG would be a better player if he was more selfish. The answer: of course.

And MemphisX, you're an *I'll edit myself here, though i think it would've been fine anyways*. I've never encountered somebody that knows so little about a player yet has such a definitive view on him. I've tried using logic with you in the past to no avail, I'm not sure what else there is to do. I guess just sit back and laugh. I'm not one to back down from an argument, but your posts just continue to leave me speachless and I'm not sure what the point would even be any more. Sorry.

[Sir Patchwork]

I agree Mike. I'm not a fan of making insignificant statistical advantages into the end-all, but stats do represent something. You can't score 20-25 a night very efficiently within the offense and not be an impact player. You can't be pulling down 10-15 boards per night and not be valuable.

I'm fine with someone making the argument that a player is better than his stats indicate. For example if you wanted to make the argument that Pau Gasol is as good or better than Garnett, but plays less minutes and more within the system so his stats aren't as good, that's fine with me. I've thought that Tim Duncan has been superior to Kevin Garnett for years now despite being inferior statistically, but it had to do with defensive impact and spacing issues.

My biggest knock on Garnett is the spacing issue. He plays all over the court, which can be considered amazing that he can do that, but it's hard to know what to expect from him night to night. His teammates can't come out knowing exactly how to play, because they have to feed off Garnett, who is more unpredictable than your Duncans and Shaqs. Those two come down and go right to the block on boths. Their teammates know this before the game even starts and it makes for higher clarity and a sense of purpose. The team knows what it's doing.

[HKF]

Patches would you want KG on this Clipper team over Elton Brand?

Next year when KG gets traded to Washington, he will win the MVP, but it will be Arenas winning all of their close ball games.

[Avalanche]

Originally Posted by socco

And MemphisX, you're an *I'll edit myself here, though i think it would've been fine anyways*. I've never encountered somebody that knows so little about a player yet has such a definitive view on him. I've tried using logic with you in the past to no avail, I'm not sure what else there is to do. I guess just sit back and laugh. I'm not one to back down from an argument, but your posts just continue to leave me speachless and I'm not sure what the point would even be any more. Sorry.

agree 100%