defense: 80s vs today

[SkywalkerAC]

Originally posted by <b>buduan</b>!



I could debate with you all day. But I just want to point out there is NO CHANCE IN HE!! the current Lakers could beat the 80's Lakers. NO CHANCE.

You say that there is no answer for Shaq or Kobe? I say there is no anwer for Magic or Worthy. The 80's team is FAR more deeper than this current team. Even the 2000 or 2001 Lakers.

Magic would find a way to beat these guys.

i'm not going to pretend to know that today's lakers would win. however, the lakers have proved their mettle, and are continuing to do so, against teams of vastly superior depth- namely the kings and the blazers.

kobe would find a way to beat those guys

[Showtime84']

The Lakers of the 80's not only had deph, they had 3 hall of famers leading the charge and an excelent head coach. Things neither the Blazers or Kings have and they took the present squad to the brink.

For the present Lakers to even be competitve they need to have both Kobe and Shaq scoring between 25 and 40 points, that's not the mark of a great team.

For Showtime to be succesfull theyonly needed Magic and Kareem to score in the low 20's.

That was a great team!

[carayip]

Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!


i'm not going to pretend to know that today's lakers would win. however, the lakers have proved their mettle, and are continuing to do so, against teams of vastly superior depth- namely the kings and the blazers.

kobe would find a way to beat those guys

But Kings and Blazers didn't have 3 HOFers 80s Lakers had.

[buduan]

Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!


i'm not going to pretend to know that today's lakers would win. however, the lakers have proved their mettle, and are continuing to do so, against teams of vastly superior depth- namely the kings and the blazers.

kobe would find a way to beat those guys

Please tell me you don't actually believe that. PLEASE.

You lose some stripes if that's the case. The Kings and Blazers have nothing on the 80's Lakers. NOTHING.

[SkywalkerAC]

Originally posted by <b>buduan</b>!



Please tell me you don't actually believe that. PLEASE.

You lose some stripes if that's the case. The Kings and Blazers have nothing on the 80's Lakers. NOTHING.

the kobe thing was kind of a joke but at the same time countering the "magic will always find a way to win argument." you don't want to be betting against kobe either.

as for the lakers and the blazers i was just making a point that the lakers have came out victorious against two of the deepest teams that i have ever seen. its just a counterargument against the old champ lakers were too deep for the new champ lakers to win. if magic's lakers would come out on top, i'm betting its largely due to their big 3, not just because they're too deep for shaq's lakers to handle.

[buduan]

You didn't counter anything. The '89 Lakers had 3 players that averaged 20 points a game. 5 that averaged in double digits. 2 more that averaged 9 points a game and would have started on many teams (Mychal Thompson and Orlando Woolridge) and their 8th leading scorer was Michael Cooper.

Now that's depth.

The current Lakers have Shaq and Kobe and a whole lot of players that are there only because of Shaq. When he was out they were HORRIBLE. Not just regular horrible, but incredibly horrible.

That Laker team would throw a trap at the current Lakers where there would be no player smaller than 6'9 and just bury them. Cooper would do to Kobe what Kirilenko, Artest, and Patterson do to him now, bother him just enough to make him less effective.

Those Lakers wouldn't give up 15 point leads in a game 7. Or blow FT after FT in game 7.

He!! the series wouldn't even see game 7.

I love Kobe as much as the next Laker fan, but he is nowhere near Magics level. Very few players to ever play the game were.

[Da Grinch]

Originally posted by <b>buduan</b>!
You didn't counter anything. The '89 Lakers had 3 players that averaged 20 points a game. 5 that averaged in double digits. 2 more that averaged 9 points a game and would have started on many teams (Mychal Thompson and Orlando Woolridge) and their 8th leading scorer was Michael Cooper.

Now that's depth.

The current Lakers have Shaq and Kobe and a whole lot of players that are there only because of Shaq. When he was out they were HORRIBLE. Not just regular horrible, but incredibly horrible.

That Laker team would throw a trap at the current Lakers where there would be no player smaller than 6'9 and just bury them. Cooper would do to Kobe what Kirilenko, Artest, and Patterson do to him now, bother him just enough to make him less effective.

Those Lakers wouldn't give up 15 point leads in a game 7. Or blow FT after FT in game 7.

He!! the series wouldn't even see game 7.

I love Kobe as much as the next Laker fan, but he is nowhere near Magics level. Very few players to ever play the game were.

you act as if kobe couldn't slow down magic as well

and i dont see the 80s laker vaunted depth beating the current lakers ...kurt rambis isn't going to lead a charge to win or lose a game

throughtout the 80s great centers killed abdul-jabbar in the playoffs ...moses malone , sampson ...even parish on occasion what makes you think for even a moment kareem can even slow down shaq ?

and yes the 89 lakers had 3 20 point scorers but a team with no 20 point scorers won the title that year(pistons) so i'm at a loss at how that proves anything

[buduan]

Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!




and yes the 89 lakers had 3 20 point scorers but a team with no 20 point scorers won the title that year(pistons) so i'm at a loss at how that proves anything

Would have nothing to do with Magic and Byron Scott missing almost the entire series with injuries, would it?

Ignorance abound in this thread. If you didn't watch the league in the 80's, please stop posting. You make yourself look ridiculous.

[Bball_Doctor]

Originally posted by <b>buduan</b>!



Would have nothing to do with Magic and Byron Scott missing almost the entire series with injuries, would it?

Ignorance abound in this thread. If you didn't watch the league in the 80's, please stop posting. You make yourself look ridiculous.

Very true. Injuries destroyed their chances of beating the Pistons. But the Pistons had an aura around them in 89'. Even though it is largely arguable that the Lakers would and should have won with a healthy Magic and Scott something made me feel like the Pistons were unbeatable in 89. I dunno why but that 89 n 90 Pistons team was my favorite then even when compared to my alltime favorite 80's Lakers.

[colossus735]

Originally posted by <b>Showtime84'</b>!
The greatest, dirtiest, roughest and most intimidating defensive team of all time came from that era in the Bad Boy Pistons and the lowest ppg they EVER allowed was 99!!! back in 1989 so that tells you a lot about how powerfull the offenses were.

Hell the 91 Bulls had AWESOME defense and they allowed 101ppg!!!

Now if those 2 teams, who were better defensively than ANY team now a days (they could also score above 100) couldn't or barely kept teams below 100 points it tells me that something else is going on besides "More sophisticated" defenses.

So to me defenses didn't get that much better, offenses became EASIER to stop. Yo can thank expansion and the salary cap for that.

MJ even said it himself. The Pistons were the toughest defense he has ever faced. He learned his toughness from them. The Pistons were the only team to knock him down, play tough D, and not sit around or move when Jordan drove to the basket. That has always been the downfall of every team that has lost to the Bulls. They play him too soft and are most times aww struck because they are facing MJ. (The same goes for Kobe today.) He credited Dumars as the best defender he ever faced. Again, part of the Bad Boy team. We may never see a tougher defensive unit like that Piston team ever again.

[Showtime84']

Remember, there was no choice for the rest of the teams but to play soft because David Stern and NBC basically nuttered the NBA with the flagrant foul rule. Jordan could waltz to the basket after that.

[Bball_Doctor]

Originally posted by <b>colossus735</b>!


MJ even said it himself. The Pistons were the toughest defense he has ever faced. He learned his toughness from them. The Pistons were the only team to knock him down, play tough D, and not sit around or move when Jordan drove to the basket. That has always been the downfall of every team that has lost to the Bulls. They play him too soft and are most times aww struck because they are facing MJ. (The same goes for Kobe today.) He credited Dumars as the best defender he ever faced. Again, part of the Bad Boy team. We may never see a tougher defensive unit like that Piston team ever again.

I think u hit it on dot. Defenses today are much more complicated and designed to force bad shots and bad percentages. The late 80's Pistons and best defensive teams of the past had defenses designed to intimidate. So even though they still allowed a number of points (but still ranked in the top during their day at ppg allowed), they made opposing teams scared to play offense against them. The last team to do that were the 93-94 Knicks and David Stern has put a stop to that rough play and defenses ever since have lost the intimidation but have improved, yes improved, structurally.

[Da Grinch]

Originally posted by <b>buduan</b>!



Would have nothing to do with Magic and Byron Scott missing almost the entire series with injuries, would it?

Ignorance abound in this thread. If you didn't watch the league in the 80's, please stop posting. You make yourself look ridiculous.

so what if the lakers were hurt they weren't favored to win the series anyway (they barely beat the pistons the year before with thomas on a gimpy ankle)

i'm not the one who doesn't remember how it used to be ...i think you should try to grow up

[Jamel Irief]

Well if you feel that the players today are superior to the players in the 80s (I do) you could argue that the present day Lakers would be a deep team in the 80s.

Kurt Rambis was a factor in the Lakers rotation, his 90s more athletic equivalent, Mark Madsen, is a 12th man on the "no depth" Lakers.

As for the centers being better in the 80s, 90% of those guys would be power forwards today. Guys like Chandler, Antonio and Dale Davis and Marcus Camby are considered undersized centers but they were normal sizes for centers in the 80s.

Hell a lot of small fowards today are the same size as the beanpole 80 centers.

As for the current Lakers vs the 80s Lakers, nobody on that team has a prayer of stopping Shaq. All of them are too weak or too small.

[JOHNNY_BRAVisimO]

Originally posted by <b>Jemel Irief</b>!
Well if you feel that the players today are superior to the players in the 80s (I do) you could argue that the present day Lakers would be a deep team in the 80s.

Kurt Rambis was a factor in the Lakers rotation, his 90s more athletic equivalent, Mark Madsen, is a 12th man on the "no depth" Lakers.

As for the centers being better in the 80s, 90% of those guys would be power forwards today. Guys like Chandler, Antonio and Dale Davis and Marcus Camby are considered undersized centers but they were normal sizes for centers in the 80s.

Hell a lot of small fowards today are the same size as the beanpole 80 centers.

As for the current Lakers vs the 80s Lakers, nobody on that team has a prayer of stopping Shaq. All of them are too weak or too small.

and who could stop kobe?