defense: 80s vs today

[buduan]

Originally posted by <b>JOHNNY_BRAVisimO</b>!


and who could stop kobe?

Stop? Nobody. Bother the he!! out of? Cooper. Green.

[buduan]

Originally posted by <b>Jemel Irief</b>!
Well if you feel that the players today are superior to the players in the 80s (I do) you could argue that the present day Lakers would be a deep team in the 80s.

Kurt Rambis was a factor in the Lakers rotation, his 90s more athletic equivalent, Mark Madsen, is a 12th man on the "no depth" Lakers.

Like I said before, if you didn't watch the game in the 80's why are you posting?

A.C. Green, Mychal Thompson, and James Worthy dominated the PF spot in the latter half of the 80's. Rambis started I think one year. He was a heck of a rebounder and defender. Unlike the foul a minute Madsen. The guy is out of control most of the time.

Are you telling me that a trapping lineup of

PG Cooper
SG Magic
SF A.C. Green
PF James Worthy
C Mychal Thompson

wouldn't trap the current Lakers into oblivion? They have a hard time crossing halfcourt against the Warriors. Kobe ends up playing the point and there is no way he can sustain that level of energy for 48 minutes.

80's Lakers had depth, the current Lakers have none. I can't believe a fellow Laker fan can't see that.

[Da Grinch]

if you really watched the lakers in the 80's you would have known worthy was a small forward

power wasn't really his thing, he relied mostly on a dymamite 1st step and quickness more often then not ...the guy never avg. more than 6 boards a game

and ac green & rambis did not dominate the power forward spot ...not even close and despite what you like to think i did watch basketball in the 80s

[buduan]

Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
if you really watched the lakers in the 80's you would have known worthy was a small forward

power wasn't really his thing, he relied mostly on a dymamite 1st step and quickness more often then not ...the guy never avg. more than 6 boards a game

and ac green & rambis did not dominate the power forward spot ...not even close and despite what you like to think i did watch basketball in the 80s

If you watched like you claim you would know that Worthy played the PF position quite a bit. Especially with that trapping unit I posted. They had Green as the SF with that lineup.

Don't you remember Worthy guarding McHale in all those Finals? Isn't McHale a PF? One of the greatest if I remember correctly.

[Bball_Doctor]

The Laker team today cannot beat a Laker team in the mid to early 80s with a still good Jabbar. Take the 99-00 Laker team when they won 67-15. That was the deepest Laker team out of their 3 championships.

C Shaq (29.7 ppg, 13.6 rpg, 3.8 apg) MVP
PF Green (5 ppg, 5.9 rpg)
SF Rice (15.9 ppg, 4.1 rpg)
SG Kobe (22.5 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 4.9 apg)
PG Harper (7 ppg, 3.4 apg)
* Fisher
* Horry
* Fox
* Lue
* Shaw
* Salley
* George

Compare that to 86-87 arguably the greatest and deepest Laker team in the 80s.

C Kareem (17.5 ppg, 6.7 rpg)
PF Green (10.8 ppg, 7.8 rpg)
SF Worthy (19.4 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 2.8 apg)
SG Scott (17 ppg, 3.4 apg)
PG Magic (23.9 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 12.2 apg)
* Thompson (11.4 ppg)
* Cooper (10.5 ppg)
* Rambis (5.7 ppg, 5.8 rpg)
* Billy Thompson
* Branch
* Matthews
* Brickowski

The depth of the 86-87 Lakers would be too much for the 99-00 Lakers.

The Lakers today even with a dominant Kobe would lose against any Laker's team in the 80s (early to mid) 8 times out of 10 simply because of the Laker's incredible depth. Kareem, Magic, Worthy, Scott, Wilkes (early 80s), and Nixon (early 80's) were all good for 20 ppg. I have never witnessed a more balance team than the Lakers in the 80s. Celtics come second...their starting lineup was incredible. The best chemistry team I have ever seen were the 72-10 Bulls and the 69-13 Bulls. Of course I never saw Russell's Celtics...that could actually be the best team of alltime.

[Bball_Doctor]

Originally posted by <b>buduan</b>!



If you watched like you claim you would know that Worthy played the PF position quite a bit. Especially with that trapping unit I posted. They had Green as the SF with that lineup.

Don't you remember Worthy guarding McHale in all those Finals? Isn't McHale a PF? One of the greatest if I remember correctly.

Yes this is TRUE. Worthy was a 3 and a 4. He had the ability to play 4. That is why Jordan compared Kwame to Worthy when he drafted him.

[Da Grinch]

Originally posted by <b>buduan</b>!



If you watched like you claim you would know that Worthy played the PF position quite a bit. Especially with that trapping unit I posted. They had Green as the SF with that lineup.

Don't you remember Worthy guarding McHale in all those Finals? Isn't McHale a PF? One of the greatest if I remember correctly.

they also had scott guarding point guards most of the time

did that make him a point guard?

magic almost never guarded opposing point guards yet he is considered one of the best all time at that position

if the best you can do is one match-up when the majority of the time it didn't happen like that, you just lost this argument

[Bball_Doctor]

Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!


they also had scott guarding point guards most of the time

did that make him a point guard?

magic almost never guarded opposing point guards yet he is considered one of the best all time at that position

if the best you can do is one match-up when the majority of the time it didn't happen like that, you just lost this argument

Worthy did play the 4 at times and started at 4 at times too if I remember. That is what I think he meant and I agree. Worthy had the size and ability to play 4 that is what I think he was pointing out.

[Da Grinch]

on the celtics side of things

mchale guarded small forwards and bird guarded power forwards when they were on the floor together

did this make bird a power forward and mchale a small forward?

other examples

when the lakers faced the bulls(starting in their finals meeting) pippen usually guarded magic and MJ stayed on worthy

by your logic buduan, with worthy being a power forward and air jordan guarding him, it now makes michael jordan a 4

ive seen dennis rodman guard shaq , and shaq guard rodman so by your logic either rodman is a center(which makes luc longley a forward) or shaq is a forward

matchups are one thing but when you use your eyes its another

ac green was the power forward he did the dirty work of setting picks and grabbing the rebounds

worthy stayed out on the perimeter (although he did post up here and there throughout a game)

and though worthy and green were about the same size it was obvious that both had very different roles on the team and because they were about the same size it allowed for flexibilty in certain matchups but worthy was the small forward

[Da Grinch]

Originally posted by <b>Bball_Doctor</b>!


Worthy did play the 4 at times and started at 4 at times too if I remember. That is what I think he meant and I agree. Worthy had the size and ability to play 4 that is what I think he was pointing out.

bird started at the 4 for most of his career but i think most people agree he was a small forward

[Bball_Doctor]

Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!


bird started at the 4 for most of his career but i think most people agree he was a small forward

Point is that Worthy played 4 at times. I don't think he meant that Worthy was a 4. Worthy was often used as a 4 during trap and defensive purposes situations he was right...I saw it countless times. I don't think anybody meant that Worthy was officially a 4. Same thing as is Ben Wallace really a 5 and Duncan is a true 5 not a 4.

[Da Grinch]

Originally posted by <b>Bball_Doctor</b>!


Point is that Worthy played 4 at times. I don't think he meant that Worthy was a 4. Worthy was often used as a 4 during trap and defensive purposes situations he was right...I saw it countless times. I don't think anybody meant that Worthy was officially a 4. Same thing as is Ben Wallace really a 5 and Duncan is a true 5 not a 4.

bballdoctor i get what you are saying but what buduan said to start all this is totally different

A.C. Green, Mychal Thompson, and James Worthy dominated the PF spot in the latter half of the 80's. Rambis started I think one year. He was a heck of a rebounder and defender. Unlike the foul a minute Madsen. The guy is out of control most of the time.-buduan

there was nothing about being a part timer(and spending most of the time in another positionit was about how the line-up with worthy at the 4 dominated )) and the statement was incredibly untrue

the bulls had a great trap in the early 90s in which horace grant played a guard role by his duties in the trap in the backcourt

that didn't make grant a guard because in the halfcourt game just like worthy he went back to his normal role

and though worthy and green were about the same size it was obvious that both had very different roles on the team and because they were about the same size it allowed for flexibilty in certain matchups but worthy was the small forward-this is me earlier

i acknowledged that on occasion they switched up ..but you are what you are, ac green wasn't about to be trying to take players off the dribble while worthy played on the weakside trying to garner rebounds off misses and thats why worthy is a 3 and green is a 4 ...its because of their offensive purpose on the floor and that never changed not while they were trapping not while they were playing the clippers or celtics or whomever

[Bball_Doctor]

Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!


bballdoctor i get what you are saying but what buduan said to start all this is totally different

A.C. Green, Mychal Thompson, and James Worthy dominated the PF spot in the latter half of the 80's. Rambis started I think one year. He was a heck of a rebounder and defender. Unlike the foul a minute Madsen. The guy is out of control most of the time.-buduan

there was nothing about being a part timer(and spending most of the time in another positionit was about how the line-up with worthy at the 4 dominated )) and the statement was incredibly untrue

the bulls had a great trap in the early 90s in which horace grant played a guard role by his duties in the trap in the backcourt

that didn't make grant a guard because in the halfcourt game just like worthy he went back to his normal role

and though worthy and green were about the same size it was obvious that both had very different roles on the team and because they were about the same size it allowed for flexibilty in certain matchups but worthy was the small forward-this is me earlier

i acknowledged that on occasion they switched up ..but you are what you are, ac green wasn't about to be trying to take players off the dribble while worthy played on the weakside trying to garner rebounds off misses and thats why worthy is a 3 and green is a 4 ...its because of their offensive purpose on the floor and that never changed not while they were trapping not while they were playing the clippers or celtics or whomever

Ok I see.

A.C. Green, Mychal Thompson, and James Worthy dominated the PF spot in the latter half of the 80's< This is wrong.

Barkley, Malone, and McHale were the most dominating 4s in the latter half of the 80s.

[Showtime84']

I think he meant they dominated the PF spot for the Lakers, Not the entire league.

[SkywalkerAC]

i think we can all agree by this point that the 80s had some great defensive teams but overall, today's defense is better