was the overall defense of the nba stronger in the 80s (pick a year)?
were the wing defenders better in the 80s?
were the wing defenders better in the 80s?
Is there a reason why Stockton and Malone vs. Kobe of Shaq four years ago is stated in almost all of your posts? I didn't think that the Jones/Van Exel/Shaq/young Kobe team was the best out there, rather the one with the most potential. Also, Stockton and Malone were far from over the hill at that point. Those two were among the top two or three at their position. I remember an even older Kareem dominating other teams as he pushed 40. He wasn't over the hill, he was "experienced."Originally posted by <b>golgor</b>!
Artest would be the best defender back then?
What the hell are you smoking. Artest would have been playing in the CBA in the 80s
Nice... Coop was the best defender out there. I remember watching him guard DJ one play, and then Parish the next. Only one guy had the skills to do that
They swept Kobe and Shaq and better Lakers than these today 2 years in a row. And they were 80s guys over the hill at the time they kicked Kobe and Shaq's azz. How bad do you think they'd beat them if they played them in their prime.
You don't need to speculate, that is your proof right there. 2 80s guys over the hill sweepingthe best ( as you say ) of today, just a few years back.
What more proof do you need than 2 of the 80s guys playing against today's champs and demolishing them desopite being over the hill and having no center or any other decent teammates.
They have no brains or balls.
please don't be insulted, and i'm sure you won't be because you're obviously just trolling, but you're probably the worst hater on this site.Originally posted by <b>golgor</b>!
It's good to see some voices of reason here, but I'm still amazed by these retards who think defenses are better today just because teams were scoring a lot more back then.
That has nothing to do with defenses.
Those guys knew how to play the game and score. That's why they scored more points , not because defenses were bad.
Artest would be the best defender back then?
What the hell are you smoking. Artest would have been playing in the CBA in the 80s
The quality of both offense and defense is crap today. Argentina for Christ sakes did whatever they wanted to do against some of the best defenders in the NBA. Stockton and Malone are still playing at 40+. They swept Kobe and Shaq and better Lakers than these today 2 years in a row. And they were 80s guys over the hill at the time they kicked Kobe and Shaq's azz. How bad do you think they'd beat them if they played them in their prime.
You don't need to speculate, that is your proof right there. 2 80s guys over the hill sweepingthe best ( as you say ) of today, just a few years back.
What more proof do you need than 2 of the 80s guys playing against today's champs and demolishing them desopite being over the hill and having no center or any other decent teammates.
Guys like Moncrief, Cooper, Dumars don't exist today.
Even the Bulls were a veteran team with guys who entered the league in the mid 80s and nobody could beat them even when Jordan, Rodman and Harper were over the hill. They won 70 games. That is how bad the younger players are. They couldn't handle 80's players even when these guys reached 35 years of age or more. If thes guys of today played some 80s team in their prime the massacre would be unbearable, worse than Dream team against Angola.
Who cares if guys looked a little less pumped up in the 80s. That's only a detriment to today's guys. The steroids ate away at what little brains they have. They gained size, they lost everything else.
They have no brains or balls.
wow, great argument! defense doesn't matter cause people just want to see showtime. the question was is defense better, not is defense fun to watch.Originally posted by <b>Showtime84'</b>!
When it comes down to it people don't give a sh!t how the NBA came to have such low scores, horrible FG%'s, multiple brick laying teams and none existent fast break offense, they ONLY care about the end result.
The end result, unfortunately for the league, is that the style of play in the 80's was 10 times more exciting than what is going on now and nothing's gonna change that.
Why do you think the league has tinkered with so many freaking rules since the mid 90's??? I can tell you it was not to have a league full of teams struggling to break 100 points.
Defense may win championships but Showtime offense is what puts the as!es in the seats!
Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
please don't be insulted, and i'm sure you won't be because you're obviously just trolling, but you're probably the worst hater on this site.
you're so far off its not even funny, it's annoying. ask the most knowledgable people on this site and they will agree that today's defense is better. your examples are ludicrous- the bulls and the jazz were veteran teams, played good defense, and they won. what's your point? defensive prowess often comes with age. there are many great defenders in the L today and many of them are over 30. so what? they're still in today's nba!
then you bring in the US play in the WC? them losing proves the nba's weak defense? of course it doesn't. again, silly example.
ron artest wouldn't have been in the L in the 80s? your credibility is next to nothing at this point. he would have been one of the better defenders of the 80s, just like he is today.
do you look at the nba and only see the young prospects sitting on the bench and playing limited minutes? guys that shouldn't yet be in the nba and haven't learned the game yet? cause that's not the nba! it's much much more than that and contains contains some of the greatest players, offensive and defensive, of all time.
Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
please don't be insulted, and i'm sure you won't be because you're obviously just trolling, but you're probably the worst hater on this site.
you're so far off its not even funny, it's annoying. ask the most knowledgable people on this site and they will agree that today's defense is better. your examples are ludicrous- the bulls and the jazz were veteran teams, played good defense, and they won. what's your point? defensive prowess often comes with age. there are many great defenders in the L today and many of them are over 30. so what? they're still in today's nba!
then you bring in the US play in the WC? them losing proves the nba's weak defense? of course it doesn't. again, silly example.
ron artest wouldn't have been in the L in the 80s? your credibility is next to nothing at this point. he would have been one of the better defenders of the 80s, just like he is today.
do you look at the nba and only see the young prospects sitting on the bench and playing limited minutes? guys that shouldn't yet be in the nba and haven't learned the game yet? cause that's not the nba! it's much much more than that and contains contains some of the greatest players, offensive and defensive, of all time.
all you're doing is complaining about today's nba and not proving your point in any way. you've brought up points trying to explain why today's point totals and fg% are down but have failed to argue what made the 80s defense better. were their wing defenders better than today's?Originally posted by <b>buduan</b>!
Todays defense IS NOT better. The league is diluted and fundamental skills like a midrange game has disappeared. It's either you dunk or shoot a 3 nowaday.
Name how many people have unstoppable midrange games nowadays? Kobe? Big Dog? Cassel? Marion?
Teams in the 80's had at least 1-3 players with a solid midrange jumper and game. The poster that pointed out the PG's, nice work. The points back then were a lot stronger. So were the centers. You don't think that makes a difference in how a team is able to score Skywalker?
Scoring has steadily declined because so have the talent levels. The athleticism has increased, and that's it. 7 footers nowadays want to be KG not Kareem. PG's want to be And1 ballers, not Jason Kidd. Teams can't even run anymore because there are no PG's to lead them. There are maybe 2-4 great running teams nowadays? There were several in the 80's.
It's sad really.
i'm sorry but this team is not that deep. please check out the blazers and the kings in the past few years. this team looks great on paper but they failed...to a team from the 90s, not the freaking 80s! just because they were playing with awesome veterans means nothing! and they aren't hands down better than every team in the nba...unless that kobe bryant is replaced with today's.Originally posted by <b>Showtime84'</b>!
The 1998 Lakers were one of the Deepest, most athletic and talented teams in the last 10 years, better than ANY present team
C-Shaq, Rooks
PF-Campbell, Blount
SF-Fox, Horry
SG-Jones, Bryant
PG-Van Exel, Fisher, Barry
What happened? Got pimp slapped by Malone, Stockton, Hornacek, Carr, Osterfag and crew.
Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
all you're doing is complaining about today's nba and not proving your point in any way.
you've brought up points trying to explain why today's point totals and fg% are down but have failed to argue what made the 80s defense better. were their wing defenders better than today's?
There will always be players fighting for 10 day contracts, I can't believe you even said that.the nba is no longer really diluted- there are many great players fighting for a 10 day contract. there are more than enough great players to supply 29 teams.
many nba players have good medium range games. dunking isn't the be all and end all but taking it hard to the rim is a very important part of the game that has risen to the forefront along with the 3. i think that number of 3s has increased out of necessity- oppressive defenses make the midrange game more difficult. it's not just nba players falling in love with the outside game, the greatest minds in basketball have incorporated 3 pointers to a greater extent for significant for good reason.
Anybody else see the flaws in this paragraph? PG's fashion themselves after Kidd do they? Like Francis? Marbury? Nash? Arenas? Which ones are you talking about? The guys I watch nowadays miss the open man far too much and try to be far to fancy on fast breaks. How many lobs do you see missed a game? I see quite a few. Bounce passes off the glass? I see that quite often without the desired result.the point guard position is fine, many of them are scorers but often other players take on distributory roles. as the best in the game, players do fashion themselves after kidd. even alston doesn't use his playground moves in the nba so i don't really see where the adulation of andoners comes into play here.
believe it or not, a slow down style of play usually results in better defense being played. also, more teams would be fast breaking if transition defense wasn't strong.
so, why aren't teams fast breaking? why are teams forced beyond the 3 point line? are defenders not bigger and stronger and quicker than ever? are these not the important physical attributes of defense? do coaches not scout ahead and concentrate on defense more than ever before?
7 footers should never be as far from the hoop as he finds himself at times. 7 footers big men, not skinny men that can do it all. But that's my own personal preference.and what on earth is wrong with modeling after KG- he does it all and is one of the best defensive players in the game.
Originally posted by <b>Jemel Irief</b>!
I feel that today's defenses are much better. One reason is better athletes, but advanced scouting along with better video editing are also a factor. Back in the 80's players never watched tape and coaches barely did. Now NBA teams have scouts that are assigned to cover like 5 teams and they can tell you what plays they run and what signals players and coaches use to call that play. They study players moves to the point where one player makes a jab step and the defender already anticipated it.