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Old 02-22-2003, 02:14 PM   #1 (permalink)
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defense: 80s vs today

was the overall defense of the nba stronger in the 80s (pick a year)?

were the wing defenders better in the 80s?
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Old 02-22-2003, 02:28 PM   #2 (permalink)
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The greatest, dirtiest, roughest and most intimidating defensive team of all time came from that era in the Bad Boy Pistons and the lowest ppg they EVER allowed was 99!!! back in 1989 so that tells you a lot about how powerfull the offenses were.

Hell the 91 Bulls had AWESOME defense and they allowed 101ppg!!!

Now if those 2 teams, who were better defensively than ANY team now a days (they could also score above 100) couldn't or barely kept teams below 100 points it tells me that something else is going on besides "More sophisticated" defenses.

So to me defenses didn't get that much better, offenses became EASIER to stop. Yo can thank expansion and the salary cap for that.
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Old 02-22-2003, 02:31 PM   #3 (permalink)
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um the 80's were way inferior on defense there is just a big difference

the better teams then cared about defense but not with the intsensity that they do now
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Old 02-22-2003, 04:03 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Individual defenders are much better these days, though the league allowed more contact back then. Ron Artest would probably be the best on the ball defender in the 80's if you put him in that era. The average player per position back then was much smaller and less athletic then today.
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Old 02-22-2003, 04:10 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Teams also concentrated more on Offense during the 80's and b4 that as well....every team wanted to run and push the ball up at any given opportunity. For how many teams can u say that today? Very few. Only 2 teams in the league today run a lot and r still able to stop guyz effectively on the other end - Kings and Nets.
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Old 02-22-2003, 04:19 PM   #6 (permalink)
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And both of those teams have something that is a dying breed in the NBA, a true pass first, up tempo PG that doesn't have to look at the coach every freakin time he recieves an outlet pass.

In the 80's the league was FULL of PG's that played that way and the teams were a lot deeper because there were 23 of them with low salaries and no cap. Here are some PG's of that era:

Magic
Isiah
Stockton
Cheeks
DJ
Mark Price
Terry Porter
Mark Jackson
Kevin Johnson
Norm Nixon
Tiny Archibald
Sidney Moncrief
Sleepy Floyd
John Lucas
Sugar Ray Richardson
Fat Lever

That list DWARFS' the present crop by a country mile!!!

The PG's are a teams engine and back in the 80's they were all the race car type.

Now only Jason Kidd, Steve Nash and Bibby fit that mold.
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Old 02-22-2003, 05:24 PM   #7 (permalink)
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i certainly dont see all the great defense today that everyone is talking about.dont confuse playing a zone with great defense.there were guys like michael cooper of the lakers who were great defenders who didnt even start.how about the celts with,mchale parish and d.j.,some of the great defenders of all time and philly with mo cheeks,bobby jones and moses malone.
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Old 02-22-2003, 07:41 PM   #8 (permalink)
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everyone keeps making references to the best defensive teams and players. isn't it freaking obvious that team, transition, and individual defense is much much better nowadays? with scores in the 120s there isn't a lot of hard nosed defense being player. you have to realize this.
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Old 02-22-2003, 08:42 PM   #9 (permalink)
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It's good to see some voices of reason here, but I'm still amazed by these retards who think defenses are better today just because teams were scoring a lot more back then.

That has nothing to do with defenses.

Those guys knew how to play the game and score. That's why they scored more points , not because defenses were bad.

Artest would be the best defender back then?

What the hell are you smoking. Artest would have been playing in the CBA in the 80s

The quality of both offense and defense is crap today. Argentina for Christ sakes did whatever they wanted to do against some of the best defenders in the NBA. Stockton and Malone are still playing at 40+. They swept Kobe and Shaq and better Lakers than these today 2 years in a row. And they were 80s guys over the hill at the time they kicked Kobe and Shaq's azz. How bad do you think they'd beat them if they played them in their prime.

You don't need to speculate, that is your proof right there. 2 80s guys over the hill sweepingthe best ( as you say ) of today, just a few years back.

What more proof do you need than 2 of the 80s guys playing against today's champs and demolishing them desopite being over the hill and having no center or any other decent teammates.

Guys like Moncrief, Cooper, Dumars don't exist today.

Even the Bulls were a veteran team with guys who entered the league in the mid 80s and nobody could beat them even when Jordan, Rodman and Harper were over the hill. They won 70 games. That is how bad the younger players are. They couldn't handle 80's players even when these guys reached 35 years of age or more. If thes guys of today played some 80s team in their prime the massacre would be unbearable, worse than Dream team against Angola.

Who cares if guys looked a little less pumped up in the 80s. That's only a detriment to today's guys. The steroids ate away at what little brains they have. They gained size, they lost everything else.
They have no brains or balls.
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Old 02-22-2003, 08:52 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by <b>golgor</b>!
Artest would be the best defender back then?

What the hell are you smoking. Artest would have been playing in the CBA in the 80s

Nice... Coop was the best defender out there. I remember watching him guard DJ one play, and then Parish the next. Only one guy had the skills to do that


They swept Kobe and Shaq and better Lakers than these today 2 years in a row. And they were 80s guys over the hill at the time they kicked Kobe and Shaq's azz. How bad do you think they'd beat them if they played them in their prime.

You don't need to speculate, that is your proof right there. 2 80s guys over the hill sweepingthe best ( as you say ) of today, just a few years back.

What more proof do you need than 2 of the 80s guys playing against today's champs and demolishing them desopite being over the hill and having no center or any other decent teammates.

They have no brains or balls.
Is there a reason why Stockton and Malone vs. Kobe of Shaq four years ago is stated in almost all of your posts? I didn't think that the Jones/Van Exel/Shaq/young Kobe team was the best out there, rather the one with the most potential. Also, Stockton and Malone were far from over the hill at that point. Those two were among the top two or three at their position. I remember an even older Kareem dominating other teams as he pushed 40. He wasn't over the hill, he was "experienced."
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Old 02-22-2003, 09:01 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by <b>golgor</b>!
It's good to see some voices of reason here, but I'm still amazed by these retards who think defenses are better today just because teams were scoring a lot more back then.

That has nothing to do with defenses.

Those guys knew how to play the game and score. That's why they scored more points , not because defenses were bad.

Artest would be the best defender back then?

What the hell are you smoking. Artest would have been playing in the CBA in the 80s

The quality of both offense and defense is crap today. Argentina for Christ sakes did whatever they wanted to do against some of the best defenders in the NBA. Stockton and Malone are still playing at 40+. They swept Kobe and Shaq and better Lakers than these today 2 years in a row. And they were 80s guys over the hill at the time they kicked Kobe and Shaq's azz. How bad do you think they'd beat them if they played them in their prime.

You don't need to speculate, that is your proof right there. 2 80s guys over the hill sweepingthe best ( as you say ) of today, just a few years back.

What more proof do you need than 2 of the 80s guys playing against today's champs and demolishing them desopite being over the hill and having no center or any other decent teammates.

Guys like Moncrief, Cooper, Dumars don't exist today.

Even the Bulls were a veteran team with guys who entered the league in the mid 80s and nobody could beat them even when Jordan, Rodman and Harper were over the hill. They won 70 games. That is how bad the younger players are. They couldn't handle 80's players even when these guys reached 35 years of age or more. If thes guys of today played some 80s team in their prime the massacre would be unbearable, worse than Dream team against Angola.

Who cares if guys looked a little less pumped up in the 80s. That's only a detriment to today's guys. The steroids ate away at what little brains they have. They gained size, they lost everything else.
They have no brains or balls.
please don't be insulted, and i'm sure you won't be because you're obviously just trolling, but you're probably the worst hater on this site.
you're so far off its not even funny, it's annoying. ask the most knowledgable people on this site and they will agree that today's defense is better. your examples are ludicrous- the bulls and the jazz were veteran teams, played good defense, and they won. what's your point? defensive prowess often comes with age. there are many great defenders in the L today and many of them are over 30. so what? they're still in today's nba!
then you bring in the US play in the WC? them losing proves the nba's weak defense? of course it doesn't. again, silly example.
ron artest wouldn't have been in the L in the 80s? your credibility is next to nothing at this point. he would have been one of the better defenders of the 80s, just like he is today.

do you look at the nba and only see the young prospects sitting on the bench and playing limited minutes? guys that shouldn't yet be in the nba and haven't learned the game yet? cause that's not the nba! it's much much more than that and contains contains some of the greatest players, offensive and defensive, of all time.
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Old 02-22-2003, 09:12 PM   #12 (permalink)
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When it comes down to it people don't give a sh!t how the NBA came to have such low scores, horrible FG%'s, multiple brick laying teams and none existent fast break offense, they ONLY care about the end result.

The end result, unfortunately for the league, is that the style of play in the 80's was 10 times more exciting than what is going on now and nothing's gonna change that.

Why do you think the league has tinkered with so many freaking rules since the mid 90's??? I can tell you it was not to have a league full of teams struggling to break 100 points.

Defense may win championships but Showtime offense is what puts the as!es in the seats!
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Old 02-22-2003, 09:21 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by <b>Showtime84'</b>!
When it comes down to it people don't give a sh!t how the NBA came to have such low scores, horrible FG%'s, multiple brick laying teams and none existent fast break offense, they ONLY care about the end result.

The end result, unfortunately for the league, is that the style of play in the 80's was 10 times more exciting than what is going on now and nothing's gonna change that.

Why do you think the league has tinkered with so many freaking rules since the mid 90's??? I can tell you it was not to have a league full of teams struggling to break 100 points.

Defense may win championships but Showtime offense is what puts the as!es in the seats!
wow, great argument! defense doesn't matter cause people just want to see showtime. the question was is defense better, not is defense fun to watch.
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Old 02-22-2003, 09:26 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!


please don't be insulted, and i'm sure you won't be because you're obviously just trolling, but you're probably the worst hater on this site.
you're so far off its not even funny, it's annoying. ask the most knowledgable people on this site and they will agree that today's defense is better. your examples are ludicrous- the bulls and the jazz were veteran teams, played good defense, and they won. what's your point? defensive prowess often comes with age. there are many great defenders in the L today and many of them are over 30. so what? they're still in today's nba!
then you bring in the US play in the WC? them losing proves the nba's weak defense? of course it doesn't. again, silly example.
ron artest wouldn't have been in the L in the 80s? your credibility is next to nothing at this point. he would have been one of the better defenders of the 80s, just like he is today.

do you look at the nba and only see the young prospects sitting on the bench and playing limited minutes? guys that shouldn't yet be in the nba and haven't learned the game yet? cause that's not the nba! it's much much more than that and contains contains some of the greatest players, offensive and defensive, of all time.

Todays defense IS NOT better. The league is diluted and fundamental skills like a midrange game has disappeared. It's either you dunk or shoot a 3 nowaday.

Name how many people have unstoppable midrange games nowadays? Kobe? Big Dog? Cassel? Marion?

Teams in the 80's had at least 1-3 players with a solid midrange jumper and game. The poster that pointed out the PG's, nice work. The points back then were a lot stronger. So were the centers. You don't think that makes a difference in how a team is able to score Skywalker?

Scoring has steadily declined because so have the talent levels. The athleticism has increased, and that's it. 7 footers nowadays want to be KG not Kareem. PG's want to be And1 ballers, not Jason Kidd.

It's sad really.
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Old 02-22-2003, 09:27 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!


please don't be insulted, and i'm sure you won't be because you're obviously just trolling, but you're probably the worst hater on this site.
you're so far off its not even funny, it's annoying. ask the most knowledgable people on this site and they will agree that today's defense is better. your examples are ludicrous- the bulls and the jazz were veteran teams, played good defense, and they won. what's your point? defensive prowess often comes with age. there are many great defenders in the L today and many of them are over 30. so what? they're still in today's nba!
then you bring in the US play in the WC? them losing proves the nba's weak defense? of course it doesn't. again, silly example.
ron artest wouldn't have been in the L in the 80s? your credibility is next to nothing at this point. he would have been one of the better defenders of the 80s, just like he is today.

do you look at the nba and only see the young prospects sitting on the bench and playing limited minutes? guys that shouldn't yet be in the nba and haven't learned the game yet? cause that's not the nba! it's much much more than that and contains contains some of the greatest players, offensive and defensive, of all time.

Todays defense IS NOT better. The league is diluted and fundamental skills like a midrange game has disappeared. It's either you dunk or shoot a 3 nowaday.

Name how many people have unstoppable midrange games nowadays? Kobe? Big Dog? Cassel? Marion?

Teams in the 80's had at least 1-3 players with a solid midrange jumper and game. The poster that pointed out the PG's, nice work. The points back then were a lot stronger. So were the centers. You don't think that makes a difference in how a team is able to score Skywalker?

Scoring has steadily declined because so have the talent levels. The athleticism has increased, and that's it. 7 footers nowadays want to be KG not Kareem. PG's want to be And1 ballers, not Jason Kidd. Teams can't even run anymore because there are no PG's to lead them. There are maybe 2-4 great running teams nowadays? There were several in the 80's.

It's sad really.
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