[fobbie]

Originally Posted by Skeet Skeet Skita

Duncan
Nowitzki
Garnett
Gasol
O'Neal
Bosh

These players are better than Brand. And I am not making this statement based on stats...

For me, Brand is a Shawn Marion type player. He hustles, grabs offensive boards, shoots open jumpers and defends. But he is not a offensive go to guy like these above-mentioned gentleman. He cannot create very well for his teammates and is also not the best in creating for himself, even though he can decently drive to the basket from Pick and Roll situations.

The reason for his rise of his scoring average is simpy Sam Cassell, because he is the PG that Brand never really had, someone who can set him up in situations he feels well in.

Brand is a role player, a 2nd option or a complimentary player to great PG's like Sam Cassell.

you gotta be kidding me when you say brand is a role player.... bosh shouldnt even be up there, his team suck. also brand has alway been a 20/10 type of player for his career, even WITHOUT cassell. so are you saying cassell is the all-star of that team and brand is one of the pieces to the puzzle? the guy can do almost everything that duncan can, jumper, ft, reb, D, he's not in the same sentence with td becuase TD has more ring than him. btw, if you say that brand cant get open shot, you need to watch more of the clippers game whenever you can, he can post, turn and face defender, get offensive reb...

[fobbie]

also are you saying that throwing the ball out of a double team to mobley hittin a 3s or grabbing an offensive reb and kicking it back out is not an open shot? brand has been one of the best offensive reb player the last couple of year, he's gettin his team extra shot, how is that not creating scoring for ur teammates?? lol the guy is averaging almost 4 offs. reb a night.

[7M3]

Originally Posted by fobbie

Billups= 19.6 pts, 3 rb, 8.4 ast, .67 steal, and 2 TO : controlling best team in nba (44% 3s and 92% ft)
Nash= 19 pts, 4 rb, 10.8 ast, amost 1 steal, 4 TO 35% 3s and 94% ft. (this is without amare, jj, n q)
Parker= 19 pts, 4 rb, 7 ast, 1.34 steal, 3 TO 20% 3s and 70% ft (running best team in west, mayb nba)
Paul= 16.3 pts, 6 rb, 7 ast, 2 steal 2 TO 30% 3s and 80% ft (and this is what? his rookie year?)
Kidd= 14 pts, 7 rb, 8 ast, 2 stea, 2.5 TO 35% 3s and 75% ft

Even if you want to completely ignore observational evidence and rely solely on statistics, neither Parker's nor Paul's statline is as good as Kidd's. But, I'll tell you right now, there isn't a single NBA GM that would say Tony Parker or Chris Paul or Allen Iverson or Gilbert Arenas are better point guards than Jason Kidd. All are better scorers, but none can run a team like Kidd. And of course you can write a statement like that off, because how one "runs a team" cannot be measured statistically. But every coach and every player in the NBA would know exactly what you were talking about if you were to mention it to them, just as much as they would know PPG, and every single one of them would testify to it's reality.

"Jason Kidd always makes a difference. He can go out there and not score, not rebound, not assist, turn the ball over 10 times but as long as he's on the court, he's always going to make a difference because he's Jason Kidd." - LeBron James

[AJC NYC]

Kidd is the best rebounder out of all of them

[VinceIsLoco]

You all overlook J Kidd so much it is ridiculous. All I hear is how much he's declining every day on this board, and every night I watch the Nets and see him continue to lead the team. He's the strongest point guard in the NBA (yes, stronger than Billups), and he has an impact far deeper than his stat line.

He keeps players in order, he motivates, and he creates an air of unselifishness that is necessary when you are harboring two great offensive threats like VC and RJ.

Why do you think Marc Jackson and McInnis have completely shut up about being traded? Why have they now accepted their roles as bench players? Because of Jason Kidd and his mentality.

Jason is definitely a top 5 PG in the NBA. Probably top 2.

[reHEATed]

PG
1. Nash
2. Iverson
3. Billups
4. Kidd
5. Parker

SG
1. Bryant
2. Wade
3. Carter
4. Allen
5. Redd

SF
1. Lebron
2. McGrady
3. Marion
4. AK47
5. Carmelo

PF
1. Garnett
2. Duncan
3. Nowitski
4. Gasol
5. JON


C
1. Camby
2. Shaq
3. Yao
4. Big Ben
5. Z

[DJRaz]

my main gripe is with some people's lists is how big Z didn't make it. maybe cuz people can't spell his name, i don't know. he's playing good ball this year, at least as good as okur. i think he's better than okur, but okur is putting up some good numbers. and camby's rebounding and efficiency look stellar this year.

ilgauskas
15.3 ppg @ 49%, 7.6 rpg, 86% FT, 30 mpg, 17.9 eff rating

okur
17.4 ppg @ 45%, 9.4 rpg, 79% FT, 35 mpg, 19.9 eff rating

camby
16.3 ppg @ 50%, 12.9 rpg, 74% FT, 33 mpg, 25.6 eff rating


from a stats perspective i rank the centers shaq, yao, camby, wallace, okur, then Z at 6. but i still take z over okur if i'm picking teams. okur is several years younger than z, even though they both look 45.

[P-Dub34]

1. Lebron
2. McGrady
3. Marion
4. AK47
5. Carmelo

I can only hope you did not intentionally leave Paul Pierce off your Top 5 SF list.

[P-Dub34]

I forgot to add my own.

PG
1) Steve Nash
2) Allen Iverson
3) Chauncey Billups
4) Tony Parker
5) Jason Kidd

SG
1) Dwyane Wade
2) Kobe Bryant
3) Gilbert Arenas
4) Vince Carter
5) Michael Redd

SF
1) LeBron James
2) Paul Pierce
3) Tracy McGrady
4) Shawn Marion
5) Carmelo Anthony

PF
1) Elton Brand
2) Tim Duncan
3) Kevin Garnett
4) Dirk Nowitzki
5) Jermaine O'Neal

C
1) Marcus Camby
2) Shaquille O'Neal
3) Yao
4) Mehmet Okur
5) Zydrunas Ilgauskas

[Skeet Skeet Skita]

Originally Posted by P-Dub34

I forgot to add my own.

PG
1) Steve Nash
2) Allen Iverson
3) Chauncey Billups
4) Tony Parker
5) Jason Kidd

SG
1) Dwyane Wade
2) Kobe Bryant
3) Gilbert Arenas
4) Vince Carter
5) Michael Redd

SF
1) LeBron James
2) Paul Pierce
3) Tracy McGrady
4) Shawn Marion
5) Carmelo Anthony

PF
1) Elton Brand
2) Tim Duncan
3) Kevin Garnett
4) Dirk Nowitzki
5) Jermaine O'Neal

C
1) Marcus Camby
2) Shaquille O'Neal
3) Yao
4) Mehmet Okur
5) Zydrunas Ilgauskas

This list sucks so bad...