Well if D'Antoni gets a lot of credit instead of Nash... then what goes with Popovic and Duncan?
Popovic's system is the best half court in both defense and offense, not so much in the regular season but in the playoffs. I'm sure if Popovic play high pace tempo and try to incorporate a system that will allow Parker and Ginobili more shots and more touches, I'm sure Duncan's impact in the offensive end will go down significantly. Defensively, with a high tempo run and gun system, Duncan wouldnt be as effective too.
The point?
The coach evaluates the strengths of the team and makes that its primary strategical source. D'Antoni obviously knew Nash's strengths and knew how he can utilize him better.... and you see the results last season and this season. So yes, Kudos for D'Antoni for establishing a system that utilizes its best player (Nash) and make him more effective, just like Popovic with Duncan. Simple.
Why would D'Antoni opt for a half court oriented setup and put bangers on the court if he knew Nash wouldnt be able to be that effective without the right pieces around him... Again, the props go to D'Antoni for knowing Nash's abilities....
D' Antoni is a good coach and I like his originality.
But let's not be nonsensical and kid ourselves - Nash is obviously the vital force of this offense, one that he has Peyton Manning-like control of. There isn't another PG that could approach what Nash is doing with the Suns, not the least of whom is Luke Ridnour, which was ridiculously suggested earlier. He is the best offensive PG in the NBA since the likes of Stockton and KJ in the mid 90s.
As for Nash now compared to his earlier days, I don't think that he is that much better than when he was a Maverick. He has just been given more responsibility in the offense, which he has proven he rightfully deserves.
He was probably underutilized in Dallas to an extent and had the misfortune of starting his career playing behind Jason Kidd and Kevin Johnson, each factor somewhat limiting what Nash's career accomplishments could have been to this point.
I just bumped this thread because a lot of people missed the point(Sir Patchwork and a slew of other people).
The point was Nash has been this good for 5 years!!! I said this in the original post. I also said the system isn't getting enough credit, because it wasn't on this board. I think by the end of the thread most people agreed that the system and Nash are symbiotic relationship and make each other better(kind of what futuristxen said).
Now I see people like Patchwork using the "Steve Nash was the same player in Dallas" as a negative conotation in other posts. They are using this against him when it should be a tribute to how much of a team player this guy was and is. He sacrificed a lot of his own stats in Dallas for the better of the team, just as he does now. He lets the system dictate a lot and plays within it. Does everyone understand how special this guy is now?
If he plays 5 more years at this pace I would put him ahead of Stockton in my book. I never really liked Stockton that much anyways. I always though his passes were easy bounce passes into the lane. Nash is way more creative and fun to watch.
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Originally Posted by R-Star
Chris Paul this year is not better than any year of J Kidd. Thats just a stupid, ignorant thing to say. I should get Jason Kidd to punch your wife in the face.
If he plays 5 more years at this pace I would put him ahead of Stockton in my book. I never really liked Stockton that much anyways. I always though his passes were easy bounce passes into the lane. Nash is way more creative and fun to watch.
Not to mention more than half of Stock's passes were to a man who is 2nd in most points ever in the NBA. If Amare stayed healthy, that could have been used against Nash. Well, we know better now.
Everyone is all on Nash's jock now, but he is the same player he was back then. The guy never got love for being the top PG then, but now everyone is giving him extra amounts of love.
The reason Nash's STATS are so good is because of the system. The system and style of play has made Nash standout. He was always this good.
Nash might have been the best PG in the game back then, but no one talked about it. It was always Jason Kidd, Marbury, and others. People act like Nash has suddenly become better than John Stockton. As good as he is, he has been this good for 5 years. Thats basically all I wanted to say.
Also, give more love to the system. Put Ridnour with this coach and he would come close to Steve Nash. The system deserves a lot of credit for his success.
You ever wonder if Stockton was helped by his system or perhaps Isiah Thomas' by his? Nash works in the Suns system yes... great players are all helped by systems that fit them.
1. Value on the court - LeBron's team shows the 2nd biggest (behind Wade and the Heat) dip with him on and off the court. This shows he is more valuable to his team than Nash is to the Suns. The Suns are +7.1 with Nash on the court and +2.6 with him off the court. Cavs are -10 with LeBron off and +5 with him on. LeBron's team shows a much bigger dip with him off the court, showing more value.
This is a gay arguement and you know it. Just because you have candy *** backups doesn't automatically mean you're the MVP. Ira Newble is LeBron's backup for cryin' out loud.... you think that has something to do with his plus minus? Plus LeBron is currently playing the most minutes (or top 5) of any player in the NBA. The only time he's not out there are during garbage minutes which unfairly alter a +/- grading system (during blowouts teams don't care about scoring nearly as much which greatly affects the scroing).
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2. Numbers - LeBron James blows Nash out of the water with statistics. Some say the glory stats aren't everything though, but the stat I showed above is an attempt to identify on-court impact, where LeBron easily beats out Nash.
System system system system. Clevelands system is so focally centered around LeBron it's ridiculous. The difference between the Suns and Cavs is that the Suns can actually survive without the center piece (Stoudemire). While the Cavs can't do squat. Ever wonder if LeBron dominating the ball so much actually negatively impacts his teamates? I mean when LeBron isn't on the court they probably don't even know what to do. I'd contribute this to bad coaching more than being a great player.
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3. Value to the league - LeBron makes the NBA and the Cavs a whole lot more money than Steve Nash. The Cavs only pay LeBron a rookie contract at this point. So the give and take is pretty large in favor of LeBron.
Wow... I need to save this one. Probably the worst arguement ever made in the history of BBB.net
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4. Future value - Is there any player you wouldn't trade for LeBron James? He is the most untouchable player in the league at this point, all things considered.
I guess we should just award the #1 picks of the draft the MVP every year! Problem solved. Thanks for the terrific insight Sir Skippy.
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By the way I have a stat for you that will completely blow all yours away. WINS. It makes all the difference in the world.... and let me tell you every winner of the MVP award knows this... the MVP is defined by the player who makes the greatest difference on a team that WINS.
If you don't believe me take a look at the winners of the past 30 MVP's. What did their teams have most in common?
God Damn. When will people stop saying its the system. Yes the system plays a part but the players have to be talented in order to workt he system. If this "system" makes the player then why arent all the teams catching on. Nash has been getting more credit since Dallas, but he deserves it. Hes made Phoenix what it is today.
Nash is the same player he was in DAllas
