[Dre™]

Coaching isn't some up and down thing. You don't gain knowledge of the perfect system and then forget it the next year or anything. Coaching is all mental, and that doesn't diminish until you reach senility or something. If all the coaches in the NBA were let go and told to find new work, Riley would be the first guy many GMs would call.

He works his players, demands a lot out of them, yes, but he's earned the right to do that with previous success. He institutes a system on his team, improves the teams collective defense, and knows how to appeal to his players...he pretty much has everything you'd want out of a coach, most coaches are considered good for doing just one of those things. He does look burnt out in Miami right now, but that whole team is just tired and worn out.

All in all, a coach is as good as his players. If he can't reach them, or even if he can, and they're just not good enough, that's not necessarily a reflection of him as a coach, his track record says as much. People are so quick to judge a player or coach by his team's record, but ignore the fact that team success is a collective effort.

[rocketeer]

Originally Posted by NewAgeBaller

I was actually saying they are 3 of the top 5 coaches in the league, given their history of success and just having so much knowledge and experience. But yea, I was talking about today's league when I said it.

Yea but what I'm saying is you can't judge Riley on this season to say he's declined. If it was a player, fine. But a coach can only work with what he's got, and in Riley's case, it's Dwyane Wade + the D-League posse.

i don't think history needs to be taken into account as much when talking about how good coaches currently are. what matters most are the things they are doing now. obviously when a guy has a terrible team, you can't completely hold that against him but i still don't think there's any way that pat riley is currently a top 5 coach. right now he's not a terrible coach, but he's not a great one either. historically that may be different, but history doesn't win games in the present.

And what? The last line, you're judging Riley the GM, I'm talking about him purely as a coach.

that last line was talking about him as a gm. i was just pointing out that the ****ty team he has to work with as a coach is his fault because he brought the guys in as the gm.

[rocketeer]

Originally Posted by _Dre_

Coaching isn't some up and down thing. You don't gain knowledge of the perfect system and then forget it the next year or anything. Coaching is all mental, and that doesn't diminish until you reach senility or something. If all the coaches in the NBA were let go and told to find new work, Riley would be the first guy many GMs would call.

coaching is a much more up and down thing than you are pretending it is. coaching changes every day with the player rotations, the way they utilize players, the way they prepare players. riley is living on his past reputation right now, not by how he is actually performing. yeah if every coach was available, riley would get lots of calls but that has much more to do with his big name because of past success than what he is actually doing now.

All in all, a coach is as good as his players. If he can't reach them, or even if he can, and they're just not good enough, that's not necessarily a reflection of him as a coach, his track record says as much. People are so quick to judge a player or coach by his team's record, but ignore the fact that team success is a collective effort.

i'm not judging riley only on his team's pathetic record. good coaches are the ones that get the most out of their teams. that's not happening this year with riley and the heat. riley's history is just that, history. if he can't before now, then yes he was a great coach and will be remembered as one but that currently isn't the case.

[NewAgeBaller]

Originally Posted by rocketeer

good coaches are the ones that get the most out of their teams. that's not happening this year with riley and the heat.

Ok, but like I keep saying, do you really think bringing in Phil Jackson would make any significant difference with this team and how they're playing?
If you think, like me, that it'd be relatively the same result, then I don't see how you can say Phil Jackson is a top 5 coach while Riley isn't, based on this season (ie. this team).

[unluckyseventeen]

The only trend I see among these coaches is that they all demand discipline and make you work for your job.. except Isiah. Isiah just sucks. Nobody wants to play for New York.

Being a fan of one of the coaches getting a lot of the votes, the only thing that I can say is that if they can't play in a disciplined system, can't work and have attitude problems, I don't want them here anyway.

Skiles is/was still a good coach. The firing of him, I still say, was nothing but a scapegoat firing. Chicago still sucks and needs a roster makeover, not a new coach.

[Pimped Out]

Originally Posted by unluckyseventeen

Being a fan of one of the coaches getting a lot of the votes, the only thing that I can say is that if they can't play in a disciplined system, can't work and have attitude problems, I don't want them here anyway.

Maybe Sloan got votes because 12% of the league is gay

[rocketeer]

Originally Posted by NewAgeBaller

Ok, but like I keep saying, do you really think bringing in Phil Jackson would make any significant difference with this team and how they're playing?
If you think, like me, that it'd be relatively the same result, then I don't see how you can say Phil Jackson is a top 5 coach while Riley isn't, based on this season (ie. this team).

yes i think the team would be better with jackson. right now they have 9 wins. wade, shaq, ricky davis, haslem, those guys should have more than 9 wins at this point. the team is poorly put together and falling apart as shaq declines and guys miss time from injury, but there's no excuse for single digit wins.

[NewAgeBaller]

Originally Posted by rocketeer

yes i think the team would be better with jackson. right now they have 9 wins. wade, shaq, ricky davis, haslem, those guys should have more than 9 wins at this point. the team is poorly put together and falling apart as shaq declines and guys miss time from injury, but there's no excuse for single digit wins.

meaning no disrespect, I don't think you watch Heat games.

We play competitive basketball for 3 quarters. But in the one messed up quarter (usually the 4th), the whole game plan changes;

- Miss every open shot.
- Make the same stupid mistakes over and over again.
- Noone rotates on defence.
- No hustle, energy, or real desire to win.
- Pass to Ricky on every 2nd possession.

The last part is the worst ofcourse.. Some idiot taught Ricky that a contested jumper with half the other team flying at you is a more accurate shot than an open one.. Its like he TRIES to get in situations where he has to force up a difficult shot. You'll literally see him pass up on an open shot, take a dribble in, then pull up and fade-away with a defender in his face.. That's pretty much his go-to move actually.. /end weekly Ricky rant..

Anyway the point is, we play competitive and even decent basketball for the majority of the game, then always **** up 1 quarter, or on multiple occasions, the last minute of play.. We must have lost atleast 5 games in the last minute, and about 10 in a 4th quarter collapse.. And most of the reasons we blow those games can't be attributed to a "decline" in Riley's coaching. Stupid turnovers, guys too lazy to rotate on defence, Ricky breaking up a set pplay to chuck up a contested shot, Ricky not passing to Wade, Ricky finally passing but to a guy in the 4th row, being out-hustled on rebounds and loose-balls (and also just bad luck..), etc..
Riley can't do anything if the team doesn't want to play to win, and just finds ways to blow games..

[rocketeer]

Originally Posted by NewAgeBaller

meaning no disrespect, I don't think you watch Heat games.

We play competitive basketball for 3 quarters. But in the one messed up quarter (usually the 4th), the whole game plan changes;

- Miss every open shot.
- Make the same stupid mistakes over and over again.
- Noone rotates on defence.
- No hustle, energy, or real desire to win.
- Pass to Ricky on every 2nd possession.

The last part is the worst ofcourse.. Some idiot taught Ricky that a contested jumper with half the other team flying at you is a more accurate shot than an open one.. Its like he TRIES to get in situations where he has to force up a difficult shot. You'll literally see him pass up on an open shot, take a dribble in, then pull up and fade-away with a defender in his face.. That's pretty much his go-to move actually.. /end weekly Ricky rant..

Anyway the point is, we play competitive and even decent basketball for the majority of the game, then always **** up 1 quarter, or on multiple occasions, the last minute of play.. We must have lost atleast 5 games in the last minute, and about 10 in a 4th quarter collapse.. And most of the reasons we blow those games can't be attributed to a "decline" in Riley's coaching. Stupid turnovers, guys too lazy to rotate on defence, Ricky breaking up a set pplay to chuck up a contested shot, Ricky not passing to Wade, Ricky finally passing but to a guy in the 4th row, being out-hustled on rebounds and loose-balls (and also just bad luck..), etc..
Riley can't do anything if the team doesn't want to play to win, and just finds ways to blow games..

then why is ricky in the game? someone has to put him there.