[LameR]

Originally Posted by essbee

in that case I can look at what jordan did when Pippen and Horace Grant were rookies and use that as evidence that he did it without a great supporting cast right? Great! Glad you asked

1987-1988

Roster:


MJ
Sam Vincent
Charles Oakley
Pippen (Rookie)
Ho Grant (Rookie)
Sedalle Threatt
Granville Waiters
Tony White
Elston Turner
Mike Brown
Rory Sparrow
John Paxson (Rookie)
Brad Sellers


You know what? Nobody else on this team scored more than 13 pts a game. Jordan averaged 36.3 pts, 7.1rebs and 4.1 dimes per game in the playoffs and won the MVP and won the scoring title AND the defensive player of the year awards. Anything else? Oh yeah he took this amazing supporting cast to the conference finals and lost to the Detroit Pistons who went to a 7th game before losing the championship to the lakers. I don't know what I was thinking. He couldn't have done it without Rory Sparrow!

Never won anything without a great supporting cast huh?

Meanwhile Kobe can't win a single PLAYOFF SERIES and you're telling me it's because he didn't have pippen on his team?

Please.

give him Sam Vincent as his second leading playoff scorer and see if he could get a single playoff win.


Huh? Every average to above average team in the 1990's was a michael jordan away from going deeper into the postseason



I disagree. I think a kobe-less Lakers team is perfectly capable of making the playoffs and getting blown out every year in the first round just like they've done WITH kobe.

I love how you try to use one specific example to prove your point over a period of multiple seasons, while completely neglecting what others are saying.

My personal favorite is saying Jordan is the reason that Rodman and others became so great. Because Rodman definitely didn't average 16+ rebounds per game in the 4 seasons before joining the Bulls did he? Oh wait...

Winning helps a lot, and Jordan's a definite winner, but to say that he's the reason Rodman and all of the others succeeded is ridiculous. Some players did play better due to the winning, and Jordan's presence, but to say that Scottie and Rodman shouldn't be included as his supporting cast because they were already good just makes you look foolish.

[KillWill]

Originally Posted by LameR;

I love how you try to use one specific example to prove your point over a period of multiple seasons, while completely neglecting what others are saying.

My personal favorite is saying Jordan is the reason that Rodman and others became so great. Because Rodman definitely didn't average 16+ rebounds per game in the 4 seasons before joining the Bulls did he? Oh wait...

Winning helps a lot, and Jordan's a definite winner, but to say that he's the reason Rodman and all of the others succeeded is ridiculous. Some players did play better due to the winning, and Jordan's presence, but to say that Scottie and Rodman shouldn't be included as his supporting cast because they were already good just makes you look foolish.

if jordan didn't miss so many shots, rodman could never have had as many rebounds to give to jordan to take more shots. i think i finally get the point.

[sherako]

the most unstoppable? possibly. "the nba is a showme game"--carlos boozer. accordingly, this Lakers team will have to "show me what they got" - jayz

[sherako]

Originally Posted by 23AJ

Pippen is very overrated by this board, and always will be. Pippen had MJ to thank for becoming half the player he became. Along with a few other NBA vets who did what they could to push Pippen, along with Coach Jackson. Pippen was actually quite a softy when he came into the league.

Watch video below of Pippen as a rookie with Oakley.


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this is a funny video AJ. look how oakley manhandles him, then slaps pipsy like a little girl. scottie was soft like charmin. he'd better thank his lucky stars he never went to prison. he wouldn't have walked out the same.

[jokeaward]

If the 03-04 and 05-06 Pistons couldn't win it, don't give 'em the trophy yet.

[Drewbs]

Originally Posted by essbee

Cartwright was below average and everybody asked how long Cartwight would last because jordan wanted to keep Oakley and the Bulls wanted Cartwright so they'd have some height. Let's please stop with the revisionist history about the players on that team, this is like when somebody said Will Perdue was a top 15 center . No he wasn't.

Do you really want me to compare the supporting cast of pippen, grant etc. to the supporting cast of pippen, rodman, etc? I can if you're still confused about the difference between good and great.

Revisionist history? You said that until Rodman came around, Jordan still won championships without a good supporting cast. Until Pippen and Grant become impact players, the Bulls never won anything. You bring up the 1988 season? Take a look at your facts buddy, they never got to the conference finals. The Bulls got to the second round before losing to the Pistons that year. Big whoop, they dispatched of that huge juggernaut .500 Cavaliers team. And then what? Lost in 5 to the Pistons. Hell, until that season, the Bulls had never even had a winning record, and were swept by the Celtics in the first round two years in a row.

And to criticize Kobe for not getting out of the first round. For the past 3 years, the Suns have been the second best overall team in the western conference. Of the 8 teams in the playoffs, there was only one that you can say for sure would have dispatched them any of those three years, and that was the one that won championships in 2 of those 3.

[gi0rdun]

WAIT UNTIL THEY PLAY A GAME!

Which is tomorrow.

I'm excited.

[Idunkonyou]

Originally Posted by giordun

WAIT UNTIL THEY PLAY A GAME!

Which is tomorrow.

I'm excited.

Thanks for reminding me. Great tune up for the SuperBowl. 2 pretty good NBA games tomorrow or should be.

[jokeaward]

The most unstoppable team is San Antonio. They have only been stopped since 02-03 by the 03-04 Lakers and Fisher's shot among other things, and the 05-06 Mavs in a gritty series. Unless they're beaten four times in a series they're the most unstoppable.

That was a really dumb video by the way. He's supposed to fight his teammate? And Oakley at that? MJ, Bird, and Magic shouldn't have done anything to Oakley physically. That was just messing around like a play headlock.

He's supposed to be like Artest might be and just retaliate on a teammate?

[K-Dub]

Originally Posted by 23AJ

Pippen is very overrated by this board, and always will be. Pippen had MJ to thank for becoming half the player he became. Along with a few other NBA vets who did what they could to push Pippen, along with Coach Jackson. Pippen was actually quite a soft