Please learn to read before getting your panties in a twist. I said RARELY wrong not NEVER wrong. And I also said top talent. Bargnagni and Brown were never considered elite can't miss prospects anyway. I'm talking about the elite top talent that comes out every few years.
After Portland got the number one pick. I didn't make it up, it's well known by people who've followed Oden.
please learn to read before you ask me to learn how to read. i never said that you said that scouts NEVER make the wrong call. and bargnagni and kwame were 1st picks.
your logic confuses me, you argue that oden is a can't miss prospect.. and as your proof, you say it's because he's a can't miss prospect.
There was a guy named Patrick Ewing. He was hyped to the moon and back as being the next dominate NBA center; a future multi-time NBA champion, multi-time MVP. Yet, just a year prior, there was another center drafted #1 overall but without 1/2 the hype. His name was Hakeem Olajuwon, and he ended up being Patrick Ewing's daddy.
Greg Oden is to Patrick Ewing as Andrew Bynum is to Hakeem Olajuwon.
Bynum = the steak
Oden = the sizzle
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Originally Posted by BALLS
Patrick Ewing was 6'9. Olajuwon and Oden are 7' that's quite a big difference. And last I checked Ewing dominated the league for years. Bynum is like a scrub when compared to Ewing.
In fairness, both players were 6'10" (though listed as seven foot), but that's where the similarity ends. The first poster obviously never saw either player until they were well on the downside of their careers, because he has no idea what the young Hakeem was like. And obviously no memory of his entry into the NBA as the entire draft process was changed because Chicago was unhappy with Houston getting the most hyped center to enter the NBA since Ralph Sampson (and boy did Houston blow it by not taking Chicago up on the Jordan and a first for Sampson offer). Ewing was never considered as good as Olajuwon in college, the big Ewing hype didn't start until he reached New York (and in this sense Bynum is really the player that should be getting compared to Trickpat). Ewing was another highly skilled big man with solid all-round skills. Hakeem was something that no one had seen since Wilt entered the NBA.
The NBA was used to highly skilled big men (like Walton or the forgotten Alvan Adams), ultra-athletic big men (like Kareem, Wilt, or the pre-injury JBC), ultra-physical big men (like Moses Malone, Wilt, Wes Unseld, or Dave Cowens), or even strong/massive big men (like Artis Gilmore or Unseld). What they weren't ready for was someone that combined Kareem's athleticism, Gilmore's bulk, Moses' physical play with a lot of skill. The only player, historically, that compared was Wilt. The only modern player that can seriously be compared to him, at this point, is Dwight Howard (keeping in mind that this Dwight is as old as the rookie Hakeem). Bynum bears no resemblance to Hakeem, and shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence unless that sentence is "Bynum has zero chance of ever impacting the NBA like Hakeem did." His example was horrible (the moreso since Magic and Bird dominated the 80s with their respective teams and Jordan dominated the 90s with Pippen and the Bulls), but largely because all he knew of either player was what he saw in Basketball Reference. Olajuwon was better than Ewing, true. But it's not really a comparison you can make with Bynum and Oden until we see how Oden bounces back from the surgery. If he's even 90% of his pre-surgery athleticism then he'll be a whole lot more athletic than Bynum is even in Andy's wet dreams.
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In fairness, both players were 6'10" (though listed as seven foot), but that's where the similarity ends. The first poster obviously never saw either player until they were well on the downside of their careers, because he has no idea what the young Hakeem was like. And obviously no memory of his entry into the NBA as the entire draft process was changed because Chicago was unhappy with Houston getting the most hyped center to enter the NBA since Ralph Sampson (and boy did Houston blow it by not taking Chicago up on the Jordan and a first for Sampson offer). Ewing was never considered as good as Olajuwon in college, the big Ewing hype didn't start until he reached New York. Ewing was another highly skilled big man with solid all-round skills. Hakeem was something that no one had seen since Wilt entered the NBA.
The NBA was used to highly skilled big men (like Walton or the forgotten Alvan Adams), ultra-athletic big men (like Kareem, Wilt, or the pre-injury JBC), ultra-physical big men (like Moses Malone, Wilt, Wes Unseld, or Dave Cowens), or even strong/massive big men (like Artis Gilmore or Unseld). What they weren't ready for was someone that combined Kareem's athleticism, Gilmore's bulk, Moses' physical play with a lot of skill. The only player, historically, that compared was Wilt. The only modern player that can seriously be compared to him, at this point, is Dwight Howard (keeping in mind that this Dwight is as old as the rookie Hakeem). Bynum bears no resemblance to Hakeem, and shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence unless that sentence is "Bynum has zero chance of ever impacting the NBA like Hakeem did." His example was horrible (the moreso since Magic and Bird dominated the 80s with their respective teams and Jordan dominated the 90s with Pippen and the Bulls), but largely because all he knew of either player was what he saw in Basketball Reference. Olajuwon was better than Ewing, true. But it's not really a comparison you can make with Bynum and Oden until we see how Oden bounces back from the surgery. If he's even 90% of his pre-surgery athleticism then he'll be a whole lot more athletic than Bynum is even in Andy's wet dreams.
i'm going to have to disagree here. ewing was every bit the prospect hakeem was. it was ewing that was supposed to be a bill russell type force in the nba. his hype was from his freshman year on. his sophmore matchup with sampson was one of the biggest regular season games in history.
he was supposed to instantly turn the knicks around.
I know everyone loves Oden, but fastest big man in the NBA? Uh, that'd be Dwight Howard, who tested out even faster than Oden at the pre draft camp. Also, if he's truly 300 lbs (which I don't believe), then he better take off that weight because he's not Shaq and should not be playing that heavy. Oden's legacy will be made on the defensive end of the floor, and if he'd be much better off at 270 where he can use his length and quickness to dominate the paint.
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Taurean Green, Lee Humphrey, Corey Brewer, Joakim Noah, Al Hoford: The ONLY starting 5 to ever repeat as National Champions. We'll miss you guys... good luck in the league.
In fairness, both players were 6'10" (though listed as seven foot), but that's where the similarity ends. The first poster obviously never saw either player until they were well on the downside of their careers, because he has no idea what the young Hakeem was like. And obviously no memory of his entry into the NBA as the entire draft process was changed because Chicago was unhappy with Houston getting the most hyped center to enter the NBA since Ralph Sampson (and boy did Houston blow it by not taking Chicago up on the Jordan and a first for Sampson offer). Ewing was never considered as good as Olajuwon in college, the big Ewing hype didn't start until he reached New York (and in this sense Bynum is really the player that should be getting compared to Trickpat). Ewing was another highly skilled big man with solid all-round skills. Hakeem was something that no one had seen since Wilt entered the NBA.
The NBA was used to highly skilled big men (like Walton or the forgotten Alvan Adams), ultra-athletic big men (like Kareem, Wilt, or the pre-injury JBC), ultra-physical big men (like Moses Malone, Wilt, Wes Unseld, or Dave Cowens), or even strong/massive big men (like Artis Gilmore or Unseld). What they weren't ready for was someone that combined Kareem's athleticism, Gilmore's bulk, Moses' physical play with a lot of skill. The only player, historically, that compared was Wilt. The only modern player that can seriously be compared to him, at this point, is Dwight Howard (keeping in mind that this Dwight is as old as the rookie Hakeem). Bynum bears no resemblance to Hakeem, and shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence unless that sentence is "Bynum has zero chance of ever impacting the NBA like Hakeem did." His example was horrible (the moreso since Magic and Bird dominated the 80s with their respective teams and Jordan dominated the 90s with Pippen and the Bulls), but largely because all he knew of either player was what he saw in Basketball Reference. Olajuwon was better than Ewing, true. But it's not really a comparison you can make with Bynum and Oden until we see how Oden bounces back from the surgery. If he's even 90% of his pre-surgery athleticism then he'll be a whole lot more athletic than Bynum is even in Andy's wet dreams.
I know everyone loves Oden, but fastest big man in the NBA? Uh, that'd be Dwight Howard, who tested out even faster than Oden at the pre draft camp.
I'm having a hard time finding Howard's workout numbers, have a link?
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Also, if he's truly 300 lbs (which I don't believe)
From Newsday 2/2/2008: "A noticeably chiseled Greg Oden, who is recovering from microfracture surgery, has gained 40 pounds since being drafted first overall and is weighing in at 293."
Ewing was insanely hyped in college and it wasn't about the Knicks at all, although the hype did escalate even further once they did win it. Ewing was billed as the next Bill Russell and everyone thought he'd dominate the game of basketball defensively. While he was a very good defensive big man and had a very good career, he didn't win any championships, which everyone thought was a formality when he was drafted.
Hakeem was hyped, too, no doubt. He was the #1 overall pick after all and everyone who saw him play at Houston knew how good he was, but don't make it out like Ewing wasn't seen as his superior, because most back then said that if Ewing had come out early in the '84 draft, he would of gone first overall.
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Taurean Green, Lee Humphrey, Corey Brewer, Joakim Noah, Al Hoford: The ONLY starting 5 to ever repeat as National Champions. We'll miss you guys... good luck in the league.
I'm having a hard time finding Howard's workout numbers, have a link?
From Newsday 2/2/2008: "A noticeably chiseled Greg Oden, who is recovering from microfracture surgery, has gained 40 pounds since being drafted first overall and is weighing in at 293."
I find it hard to believe he could gain that much weight that quickly, but like I said earlier, I think he'd be better off playing in the 270 range, which would still make him one of the stronger bigs in the game. I just don't think he can play at 300 lbs without losing some athleticism... he doesn't appear to have that type of frame.
Everything you need to know about combine measurments and workouts. Howard doesn't have his 3/4 sprint time listed, but I remember it being reported back when the camp was going on that he clocked in in the low 3.20s... could be wrong, though. Maybe you could locate the article. As you can see, Howard was quicker in the lane agility (and quicker than a lot of guards for that matter), and actually has a bigger wingspan than Oden, despite measuring two inches shorter at the combine (he has grown since then, though).
BTW, back to the topic of this thread. I'd take Oden because of his ability to dominate defensively. I think he'll be GREAT on that end of the court and be the best defensive big in the league pretty much every season he plays.
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Taurean Green, Lee Humphrey, Corey Brewer, Joakim Noah, Al Hoford: The ONLY starting 5 to ever repeat as National Champions. We'll miss you guys... good luck in the league.
Was just a question.. Cause I know about 99% of Blazer fans are optimistic about Oden and don't think the injury while phase him much at all, and that he'll be an impact player almost immediately.
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"I'm always going to drive. The easiest thing to do is become a jump shooter. But the
Bynum or Oden?
Hmm... maybe you were talking to someone else...
