[Coatesvillain]

Originally Posted by MLKG

To me it's been more jarring than ever how far off he's fallen on offense because he's actually getting good touches and just failing to convert them.

Dude can't finish! I've always hated Shaq but even I think that is sad.

[unluckyseventeen]

Originally Posted by MLKG

To me it's been more jarring than ever how far off he's fallen on offense because he's actually getting good touches and just failing to convert them.

What's really interesting is that I guess Shaq didn't think he needed to work on his finesse game... he just always thought plowing through the defender and dunking would work, which it did earlier in his career. It's just becoming really obvious now. I'd say he'd have a few more good years left in him if he'd spent the time working on his shooting touch and ESPECIALLY his FT's. I guess he was either too lazy or just too stubborn to do it. That's why most older vets are still valuable - they'd taken the time to adjust their game for when they don't have the same physical presence.

[Sir Patchwork]

People talk about rebounding and starting the break, but if that's why the Suns made the trade then they really took Marion for granted. That was his most valuable attribute. He'd get you 10-15 rebounds, and shoot up the court in a heartbeat. By making this trade, they're banking on Shaquille's low post game to carry them, because Shawn Marion is better than Shaquille in every other aspect of basketball. I'm just not sure Shaquille's low post game can be banked on anymore. He is Ilgauskas minus the soft touch and finesse.

[Coatesvillain]

It also prevents Amare from having to be anchor for 40+ minutes a night. While he'll still accumulate some questionable fouls on defense Shaq's presence will keep Stoudemire out of foul trouble most nights. That's a huge benefit for them.

They'll miss Marion sure, but Marion was never a factor against the Spurs. Their hope is Shaq will get them past that hump.

[MeirToTheWise]

Originally Posted by MLKG

To me it's been more jarring than ever how far off he's fallen on offense because he's actually getting good touches and just failing to convert them.

Yeah, that's kind of been bothering me for a bit now, especially in the game going on right now with the Pistons. I don't know if he's still getting himself back into shape, but he's missing quite a few easy shots near the basket >_>

Originally Posted by HKF

You can't judge this trade till the playoffs. If they make the Western Conference Finals, I say it was a wash. If they make the NBA Finals (win or lose), then the trade is a win. Last year they didn't make the WCF but people feel they got robbed by the Spurs. So that's the criteria. If they lose in the first round it's a colossal failure.

Co-signed.

[MLKG]

I think one of the biggest implications of this trade that nobody really talks about is how it essentially hands the reigns of the team over from Steve Nash to Amare Stoudamire. Shawn Marion was by far their best (and possibly only) rim runner in transition. You had to get back and protect the paint when he was on the break which opened up great looks for their shooters. He was Nash's biggest weopan on the break. Further with Shaq on the floor, any time somebody else gets a rebound, they are down a man in transition. If Amare boards and outlets, is anybody really scared of Grant Hill and Raja Bell running the break? The most important player on their team is now Amare becase he's their best player in the half court.

Playing next to somebody bigger than him WILL help Amare's offense, but is it really worth trading Shawn Marion for a 20 million dollar guy who's biggest asset is his ability to set screens?

[HKF]

Yes, because Marion didn't show up in the playoffs. Why are you harping on numbers? This isn't about numbers. This is about helping Phoenix get over the hump and Marion would have not. It may not work with Shaq, but it didn't work with Marion at all.

[The '93 Heat]

Originally Posted by MeirToTheWise

Yeah, that's kind of been bothering me for a bit now, especially in the game going on right now with the Pistons. I don't know if he's still getting himself back into shape, but he's missing quite a few easy shots near the basket >_>

No, this isn't a conditioning or injury thing. It has been like this going back 3 years. Any type of hook shot he tries is the equivalent of a turnover. His only field goals for the last 2 years have been on defensive breakdowns and offensive putbacks. If you check the stats he has literally only averaged around 20 made hook or bank shots per season.

[Diable]

It's all about Mr Duncan.Everyone else likes to undervalue Tim Duncan,but every GM in the West has made moves designed to combat him.Problem is that Shaq has never been able to guard him,Duncan'll just step out and bank in 14 foot jumpers all night long.

[SlamJam]

Originally Posted by Zei_Zao_LS

Amare, I don't know if you got the memo or not, isn't a great man to man defender. He's an excellent weak side help defender/shot blocker though

you might need to get a memo that amare isn't an excellent weak side help defender. just cause he gets 2 blocks a game doesn't mean he's anything special. the guy is out of position all the time.

Shaq may not be putting up much in the way of individual statistics, but there are some numbers that seriously jump out at you on the box score. Like notice how the Suns outrebounded two excellent rebounded teams by a very very wide margin in both games.

it was 2 games, one where the lakers didn't even have their best rebounder and another where the celtics couldn't hit anything.

Blind hate towards a player really won't get you as far as analysis and rational thought. I know. I've watched a lot of debates like "Kobe vs. God" and "Jesus vs. Atheism" and "Obama vs. Clinton". You have to have your head on straight else you look partially retarded... and there's a good chance you might look retarded anyway.

uh ok, yeah this is relevant.