[KennethTo]

Originally Posted by eddymac

I remember the Orlando/Detriot series. McGrady was a monster for the first four games. When the Magic took a 3-1 series, then proclaimed it feels good to adavnace to the second round. Then Detriot decides to start playing Tayshaun Prince and the Pistons reeled off three straight to win the series.

That was hilarious, I almost forgot about that.

[Nightmute]

LeBron's lack of a shot puts the impression that he is somewhat limited on the offensive end. He is either driving or passing, or a combination of the two. To top it of LeBron's form for his shot makes it nearly impossible for him to become the midrange, pull up jump shooter a Kobe is or McGrady was. The reason for this being his mechanics make his set-up and release really slow, he also releases the ball a little late in his jump further depleting the speed of his shot. It's one of the most unsmooth shots I have seen, that is from a perimeter scorer who averages over 30 a game. This is why when watching LeBron play and remembering McGrady's style of play, it just seemed that McGrady had much more impact because he would do such unexpected things. LeBron as soon as he gets the ball you know he'll do one of two things majority of the time. Of course perception has it's drawbacks, and I can't argue with the hard facts, whatever LeBron does predictable or not he is unstoppable. The comparison between these two in these particular season makes me wish McGrady wouldn't have left Orlando and wouldn't have gotten injured so that the best player in the league would be between 3 players instead of 2.

[The Enigma]

The biggest difference in McGrady's game now is his reduced explosiveness and athleticism after the back injuries. He plays a much smarter game now and he is still a good player but in Orlando McGrady was a monster athletically.

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Tracy McGrady 02-03

PPG 32.1
RPG 6.5
APG 5.5
SPG 1.6
BPG 0.8
TPG 2.60
FG% 0.457
FT% 0.793
3P% 0.386
MPG 39.4


LeBron James 07-08

PPG 30.2
RPG 8.1
APG 7.4
SPG 2.0
BPG 1.0
TPG 3.42
FG% 0.485
FT% 0.705
3P% 0.307
MPG 40.5

[Brandname]

I think the much higher turnover rate hurts Lebron's PER quite a bit.

Crazy numbers by both guys though.

[The Enigma]

Originally Posted by Brandname

I think the much higher turnover rate hurts Lebron's PER quite a bit.

Crazy numbers by both guys though.

If that is the case, it speaks more to the flaws of the PER system then anything else.

Less then one more turnover per game for roughly two more assists per game is not a very bad ratio in LeBron’s favor when comparing two individuals that handle the offence as much as these two players do.

LeBron James has a 2.17 assist to turnover while McGrady had a 2.12 assist to turnover in the 02-03 seasons. By the numbers LeBron James actually takes better care off the ball for the amount of assists he attempts in comparison to McGrady in the 02-03 season.

[Pioneer10]

Lebron is throwing more assists out there and rebounding more this year. TMac's season he scored a bit more when adjusted per possesion and had slightly lower turnover rate. Both scored with about the same efficiency. Add it all up and very similar seasons by PER

[Hakeem]

Originally Posted by The Enigma

If that is the case, it speaks more to the flaws of the PER system then anything else.

Less then one more turnover per game for roughly two more assists per game is not a very bad ratio in LeBron’s favor when comparing two individuals that handle the offence as much as these two players do.

PER incorporates both assists and turnovers. LeBron's PER gets credited for the assists and debited for the turnovers.

I think we tend to underestimate the cost of a turnover. It's worse than a missed field goal because there's no chance of an offensive rebound (not to mention turnovers sometimes lead to fast breaks, meaning easier-than-usual baskets for the opponent, but that's pretty hard to quantify). Teams get offensive rebounds on about a quarter of their missed shots, so a turnover is kind of like 1.33 missed shots.

So say both McGrady and LeBron go 11-22 from the field (50%) but McGrady has 0 turnovers to LeBron's 1. It would be roughly the equivalent of them both having 0 turnovers but LeBron shooting 9.67-22 from the field to McGrady's 11-22. Obviously that's not possible, but it comes to 6% worse from the field (44% to McGrady's 50%). That's a pretty significant difference over the course of a season.

PER probably does undercompensate for good passing, as assists aren't a very good measure of that. Similar thing with defense. LeBron is better than the 2003 McGrady at both these aspects of the game, so I'd rate him slightly better.