[Sir Patchwork]

Maybe it's a tribute to LeBron that he can so realistically be compared to Kobe at this point in their careers. Kobe is 29 and already a legend, LeBron is just peaking through the door. Kobe is the smart veteran with all the playoff and championship experience in the world, but is still at the top of his game physically. LeBron is the up and comer who doesn't have that same experience yet. You can argue ability until you're blue in the face, but I think it's Kobe's iron will and presence that stems from experience that gives him the nod for now. This is why Kobe commands such respect and is so feared around the league. LeBron hasn't quite reached that plateau because he hasn't circled the block enough times.

[Dre™]

Artest is actually a Tru Warier, FYI.

[R-Star]

Originally Posted by 23AJ

Check out the overrated stats thread Rebounding is one of them. LeBron get's half his rebounds standing by the rim. Don't be fooled by stats. Watch the game more in depth. Look at whos really banging in the paint and fighting for rebounds. LeBron just out jumps guys, or stands and grabs missed free throw rebounds half the game. He's not a Rodman by any stretch of the imagination.

"Lebron just out jumps guys to get his rebounds, they shouldnt count."

Are you insane?


As per topic, everyone but Clevland fans knows Kobes better at this point in time.

[TakaraJinRoh]

Originally Posted by Sir Patchwork

Maybe it's a tribute to LeBron that he can so realistically be compared to Kobe at this point in their careers. Kobe is 29 and already a legend, LeBron is just peaking through the door. Kobe is the smart veteran with all the playoff and championship experience in the world, but is still at the top of his game physically. LeBron is the up and comer who doesn't have that same experience yet. You can argue ability until you're blue in the face, but I think it's Kobe's iron will and presence that stems from experience that gives him the nod for now. This is why Kobe commands such respect and is so feared around the league. LeBron hasn't quite reached that plateau because he hasn't circled the block enough times.

Yeah. Thats a very interesting angle to look at. Quite a compliment really for Lebron James that he's already been compared side by side to one of the greatest player in our era. No shame in losing to a guy like Kobe in the popularity contest, especially since the disparity between both is not that far off.

[EHL]

Originally Posted by Hakeem

Wouldn't you have to say though that Kobe passing more readily this season, playing with greater intensity on the defensive end and being more efficient controlling the ball has a lot to do with playing with better teammates? I know Gasol is only a recent acquisition, but if you combine his and Bynum's games, that's over 80% of the season so far. Also, Derek Fisher, Jordan Farmar and Sasha Vujacic have all been really good. Yet, with all these upgrades, the Lakers have only gone from the 8th best offensive side in the league to the 4th. That's certainly a significant climb, but it's not huge. If Kobe really has become a more impactful player on the offensive end, you would expect a greater rise than that, given the sizable improvement in the supporting cast.

I don't think he's any better now than he was that season. The situation has simply allowed him to do different things.

I have no doubt that the other players around him have helped, but that applies to any player. And while the improvements in Bryant this season have been subtle, they are real. I was merely pointing out that the context of the situations should be heavily weighted, perhaps as heavily weighted as PER itself.

[Brandname]

Originally Posted by 23AJ

Kobe, is able to do more with less then LeBron is able to do. LeBron doesn't have the heart/tenacity that Kobe has. Even LeBron has admitted this. So don't say I'm Wrong Bron Bron Homer.

Also as far as I'm concerned one average season of LeBron playing defense in no way is comparable to Kobes defense.

By the way anyone watch the Bucks Cavs game last week ? LeBron tried playing defense against Mo Williams, well Mo lit LeBron up like it was the 4th of July when Mo blew by LeBron for buckets.

The only thing LeBron is really good at on defense, is being a help defender, and sneaking up on guys from behind for blocks. Thats really it.

As for lay ups that LeBron can make I mean who cares... We've all seen the greatest wing destroyed for dunks/lay ups the past 20 years. Dude name was MJ the guy that LeBron wears the number 23 for. The beautiful thing about Kobe is that he's made such an amazing impact by sharpening his tools to a level we may have never seen before. Kobes jump shot is murder, Kobes defense is relentless. Kobe can pass the ball as well as LeBron, and Kobe is really good rebounding guard.

Check it out Bron is putting up big numbers on a team that will end in the middle of the pack in the weak weak East. His impact hasn't really translated to a great season for the team that pays him the duckets. And it seems the Cavs will continue to go down hill in the terrible east, if Lebron and his fan boys care more about stats then they do about winning ball games.

And this trade the Cavs just made was horrible, the Raptors will end up with a better record then the Cavs.

Let me start by saying quite honestly that you're one of the most fanboy-ish posters here. And I'm talking about your posting style. Gotta try to bring down Bron to make Kobe look better, huh? lol

Anyway, Lebron's winning percentage of .642 is not that bad compared to Kobe's winning percentage of .705, especially when you take into account the talent disparity of the teams.

If saying Lebron fans only care about stats makes you feel better about how good your favorite player is, that's fine. Just don't bring that junk into a real argument, because you'll get run out of the room.


EDIT - And regarding the point in red, do you remember when the Lakers played the Cavs and Lebron shut Kobe down in the 4th quarter, while hitting the gamewinning jumper in his face? Of course you do, I know you were watching the game. Especially because you didn't post in here for a while after that. hahaha

The point is, I am not going to try to use that game or any other single game to try to say that Lebron is better than Kobe. In reality, that game against the Lakers means very little as far as I'm concerned in the overall big picture. So I don't use it to back up my arguments. Just to counter your extremely poor point.

Oh and by the way, your facts are wrong about the Milwaukee game anyway, lol.

[Brandname]

Here, I'll feed the fire some more:



Maybe people haven't seen it enough, but people aren't talking about how ridiculous Lebron has been in the clutch this year. Both he and Kobe are obviously the two best in the league in these situations, but even then Lebron separates himself significantly from Kobe.

And don't forget, these numbers are normalized for minutes played. So Lebron's numbers aren't higher because he's in clutch situations more often.

He averages 6.3 points more on 1.3 more FGA, rebounds at a higher rate, assists at a higher rate, blocks over twice as many shots, and comes up with 7 times as many steals per 48 minutes. Kobe turns the ball over twice as often in the clutch. And they're essentially equal on the FT line, with a slight edge to Kobe.

There's a big gap between Kobe/Lebron and the rest of the league in these situations. But Lebron has even separated himself by a good margin over Kobe in the clutch this year.

It's also important to note I'm not basing my opinions off these stats. By watching games all around the league this year, I have seen that Lebron is the best in clutch situations. So this morning I went to see what the current stats are, and they indeed agree with my observations.

[futuristxen]

That should go in the Lebron ridiculous stats thread on the Cavs board.

[Brandname]

Originally Posted by futuristxen

That should go in the Lebron ridiculous stats thread on the Cavs board.

You do realize with that sentence, you're going to bring out all of the idiots who are going to say, "Lebron fans only care about stats!!!!!!"

But on this note, I want to point out to everyone else that statistics are used because nobody watches every minute of every game of these guys. And we're all limited somewhat by our own biases when we watch games. The things that are quantifiable can be compared objectively when you look at the numbers, so they're very useful to supplement your knowledge of what happens during the game.

As long as you know what the limitations of the statistics are, they're very useful when comparing production. Things that cannot easily be measured by statistics such as defense have to be observed, and those are often subject to strong bias. People who complain about using statistics are generally the ones without a firm grasp on what information statistics give.