[Diable]

This is a list of the last 30 MVP winners with their PER and the rank for that year.You'll notice that Allen Iverson and Steve Nash are the only MVP's in the last 30 years to finish lower than 4th in PER.



1978 Bill Walton 24.8(DNQ only 58 games played,tied for 2^nd if he had qualified)
1979 Moses Malone 23.7(3rd)
1980 Kareem Abdul Jabbar 25.3(2nd)
1981 Julius Erving 25.1 (4th)
1982 Moses Malone 26.8(1st)
1983 Moses Malone 25.1(1st)
1984 Larry Bird 24.2(2nd)
1985 Larry Bird 26.5 (1st)
1986 Larry Bird PER 25.6(1st)
1987 Magic Johnson PER 27.0(2nd)
1988 Michael Jordan PER 31.7(1^st)
1989 Magic Johnson PER 26.9(3rd)
1990 Magic Johnson PER 26.6(4^th)
1991 Michael Jordan PER 31.1(1^st)
1992 Michael Jordan PER 27.7(1^st)
1993 Charles Barkley PER 25.7(4^th)
1994 Hakeem Olajuwon PER 25.3(3^rd)
1995 David Robinson PER 29.1(1^st)
1996 Michael Jordan PER 29.4(2^nd)
1997 Karl Malone 28.9(1^st)
1998 Michael Jordan 25.2 (4^th)
1999 Karl Malone 25.6 (2^nd)
2000 Shaq 30.6(1^st)
2001 Allen Iverson 24.0(7^th)
2002 Tim Duncan 27.0(2^nd)
2003 Tim Duncan 26.9(3^rd)
2004Kevin Garnett 29.4(1^st)
2005 Steve Nash 22.0(15th)
2006 Steve Nash 23.3(12th)
2007 Dirk Nowitzki 27.6(1st)

[Brandname]

CP3 and Kobe are both so good that this is actually a really hard vote for me.

[23AJ]

Originally Posted by croco

A million times better basketball player does not equal with a million times better basketball analyst. You are hating on Hollinger because he does not agree that Kobe is the best player in the league, that's an opinion a lot of people share with him. You need both, common sense and stats to evaluate a player, don't tell me you never look at stats.

I doubt that players have the time or enjoy to watch many other games when they don't play, coaches are also biased because they always go with the proven player and don't want to anger anyone. I think some coaches would still rather have Jason Kidd instead of Chris Paul.

Wrong I'm hating on Hollinger because of Kobe at all. I think he's an idiot for the way he uses stats, not because stats aren't important. Hollinger puts to much emphasis on stats as if the game was black and white. Also he has no formula that is any good that accounts for the other half of the game called defense. And he admits this openly. However you shouldn't subscribe to preconceived notions regarding me or any other poster, why they agree or disagree with anything. It shows a lack of debating skills on your part and smugness to boot.

You may doubt the players have time to watch many other games, but thats an assumption. Again I don't know that, and neither do you. Also it seems you are calling LBJ a liar as well, since he made a public statement that he's watched Kobe all year. Seems kind of arrogant of you , don't you think ?

[WhoDaBest23]

Could really care less what each one of those guys say, but at least as a consensus, they got it right pretty much. You can almost alternate KG and LeBron, but it's pretty moot. As much as I hate to say it, it looks like Kobe is the MVP right now, but it's nowhere near a lock. I'm still rooting for Paul.

[croco]

Originally Posted by 23AJ

Wrong I'm hating on Hollinger because he's an idiot for the way he uses stats, not because stats aren't important. Hollinger puts to much emphasis on stats as if the game was black and white. Also he has no formula that is any good that accounts for the other half of the game called defense. And he admits this openly. However you shouldn't subscribe to preconceived notions regarding me or any other poster, why they agree or disagree with anything. It shows a lack of debating skills on your part and smugness to boot.

You may doubt the players have time to watch many other games, but thats an assumption. Again I don't know that, and neither do you. Also it seems you are calling LBJ a liar as well, since he made a public statement that he's watched Kobe all year. Seems kind of arrogant of you , don't you think ?

This is hilarious, what are you talking about ? I never preconceived anything about you, maybe it's your complex that you think that everyone assumes that you are not taken serious because you are 23AJ ? I do not, because if I did I wouldn't answer to you, but whatever.

It's not an assumption, I have heard numerous players talking about the weariness to watch other games. I guess if you travel almost on a daily basis, play and dedicate your life to basketball you need some time to get away from it, it's simple as that. If they were basketball 24/7 junkies they would get crazy pretty soon. Also, where did I say that Lebron is liar ? It's his opinion and I have no problem with that because it's plausible, however there have also been players making a case for Paul, Lebron and Garnett. Does this mean they shouldn't be taken into account because their opinions aren't worth the same ?

[23AJ]

Originally Posted by croco

This is hilarious, what are you talking about ? I never preconceived anything about you, maybe it's your complex that you think that everyone assumes that you are not taken serious because you are 23AJ ? I do not, because if I did I wouldn't answer to you, but whatever.

It's not an assumption, I have heard numerous players talking about the weariness to watch other games. I guess if you travel almost on a daily basis, play and dedicate your life to basketball you need some time to get away from it, it's simple as that. If they were basketball 24/7 junkies they would get crazy pretty soon. Also, where did I say that Lebron is liar ? It's his opinion and I have no problem with that because it's plausible, however there have also been players making a case for Paul, Lebron and Garnett. Does this mean they shouldn't be taken into account because their opinions aren't worth the same ?

You assumed that I didn't like Hollingers PER and vote because he ranked Kobe at 4. That's not the case at all. If you find my posts in the past about Hollinger, you will have a better understanding why I find his reasonings so dopey.

Right well maybe you talk to NBA players I do not. I haven't seen any other players from other teams make a case for KG , LeBron, or Chirs Paul yet to be MVP. I have though seen their own teammates make a case for them. And when the MVP candidates themselves have been asked Paul/Kobe in particular they said they couldn't say.

At any rate I was fine watching basketball in 1985 and understading who the best teams/players were with out Hollinger. I don't need a stat guy to tell me now who's the MVP of the league and why. Also I believe Hollinger would be a lot more credible if he didnt make such grand statements like he's done in the past, Such as Manu is better then Kobe, Or Dirk is a far superior to Kobe just look at my PER formula. Stuff like that shows Hollingers true bias. I'm fine with people who can use stats such as per, but also can see and factor in all the other aspects, intangables, defense, etc that go into a basketball game.

[Plastic Man]

What happened to the "Whoever leads his team to the top of the West." argument? That seemed to have been widely accepted when the Hornets had that comfortable 1,5 game lead with 4 to play...

Just how many poor performances can Paul have before Bryant cuts that small lead CP3 had over him? I could've sworn some people justified dropping Kobe to 3rd after those two bad losses (Memphis&Charlotte). Only a couple weeks later, Bryant and the Lakers are winning when it matters the most and the Hornets are slumping, with Paul not playing well. So now, the PER kicker comes back into effect? And "the Conference is just too tight for a game or two back to decide the winner" one too. I see...

[Idunkonyou]

Kobe deserves it IMO.

[Basel57]

Didn't want to create a new thread, but here are the votes of three voters from SI.com who actually have a say when they cast their vote on Thursday:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200....html#?eref=T1

For those that don't want to click the link, Ian Thomsen and Jack McCallum are voting for Kobe, while Marty Burns is voting for Garnett. From those same 3, Chris Paul is getting two 3rd place votes and one 2nd place vote.

[Undefeated82]

Originally Posted by Plastic Man

What happened to the "Whoever leads his team to the top of the West." argument? That seemed to have been widely accepted when the Hornets had that comfortable 1,5 game lead with 4 to play...

Just how many poor performances can Paul have before Bryant cuts that small lead CP3 had over him? I could've sworn some people justified dropping Kobe to 3rd after those two bad losses (Memphis&Charlotte). Only a couple weeks later, Bryant and the Lakers are winning when it matters the most and the Hornets are slumping, with Paul not playing well. So now, the PER kicker comes back into effect? And "the Conference is just too tight for a game or two back to decide the winner" one too. I see...

That's the same thing I was thinking. There will always be scapegoating on Kobe's play and MVP status, like because his team blows other teams out and he sits the 4th quarter, when in fact most blow outs start with him being in the game.. We well see what the voters think soon.