[buduan]

Anybody else sick of hearing this argument? I've heard this year after year since I was kid and never bought into it. You either have teammates that can produce or you don't. Lets look at 3 guys and examine how they've made their teammates better.



Kobe Bryant:

I've heard time and time again since Shaq left that he doesn't make teammates better. That he is a selfish player. Now that he has some real talent around him all of a sudden he is no longer selfish. He's a real leader. Unselfish. Blah, blah, blah.



For 3 years we as Laker fans had to watch him setup guys like Kwame Brown and Smush Parker only to see them screw it up. Insert Fisher, Bynum, and Gasol and he's doing the same things but these guys are real players and finish those setups. Did he make them better? Or are they just doing their jobs? 3 years ago in a game against the Knicks the clock was winding down and they were down by 1 or 2. Kobe drives to the hoop draws multiple defenders and finds Walton under the basket for a layup. Instead of taking the shot he tries to pass the rock back to Kobe as the clock expires. Kobe takes alot of heat for yelling at him to take the effing shot. Fast forward to last night. At a critical juncture in the 4th quarter Kobe drives to the hoop, draws attention, hits Odom who finds Walton in the corner and he hits a huge 3. Did Walton get better because of Kobe or is he just a more seasoned veteran now who is willing to step up and take a shot? I go with the latter.



Chris Paul:



We hear constantly how he has dragged a team of nobodys to the 2nd seed. Is that really true? David West isn't a nobody. He can rebound with the best of them and is one of the more dangerous PF's with that midrange shot. Peja was a MVP candidate just a few years ago, he's not today. Chandler does his job, which is rebound, block shots, and catch lobs for dunks. Is Paul working with West in practice teaching him a midrange shot? Is he coaching Peja on how to shoot 3's? How about Chandler with his rebounding and defense? The answer is no, no, and no. These guys are simply doing what they are paid to do. They're filling roles. Roles they could be doing just about anywhere.



Lebron James:



What players have seen a spike after joining Lebron on the Cavs? What players have seen a dropoff after leaving the Cavs? After a admittedly quick and not so thorough glance I don't see any.



All 3 of these players are without question all world talents. They do make the game easier for those around them due to the attention they draw and the damage they can inflict. But at the end of the day you either have teammates who can do the job or you don't. These guys aren't casting magic spells on their teammates and turning them into productive players.



Thoughts? Agree? Disagree?

[nbanoitall]

after the 4 game sweep i wouldnt be ragging on bryant right now. he draws a lot of attention and he is trusting his teammates

[buduan]

Originally Posted by nbanoitall

after the 4 game sweep i wouldnt be ragging on bryant right now. he draws a lot of attention and he is trusting his teammates

Is it really any different then how he played in the PHX series they almost won? Difference being Kwame isn't there to fumble the ball out of bounds, brick wide open layups and Smush is replaced by Fisher. Remember that game 4 where he hit the game tying and then game winning shots? He only scored 14 points on like 10-12 shots. The only real explosive game he had was that game 6 because of what was riding on it, Bell was out, and his teammates shriveled up back in game 5.

[DaRizzle]

Amen brother...The only way the "make your teammates better" argument holds any water is in the sense that the superstar is going to be the focal point for the defense. Whatever superstar we are talking about can find the open man in that situation but he cant will the role player into making the shot. So in a sense superstars can make others around him better because it will be harder D on the superstar which can make the D not as strong on the role players but that is it. Either that or superstar coaches the role players on the X's and O's of the game which is not his job at all nor should it be, these are "professionals"

[buduan]

I think the argument can be made that having better teammates has made the superstars better. No longer is Kobe carrying the entire offensive load, he can pace himself, take a long break to start the 4th, then finish strong because of the rest. Paul has 3 legit options he can explore on those high screens, therefore making him look like a god because the defense has to pick their poison. Pargo comes in and gives him some rest and can score in bunches. And Lebron is facing what both of these guys faced last year, carrying a heavy load for all 4 quarters because of a lack of help.

And who are the favorites for the MVP? That's right. The two guys who have all that help. Not the guy who is carrying an entire franchise on his back.

And I'm not trying to turn this into a MVP argument. Truth be told Kobe, KG, Paul, and Lebron are all deserving MVP candidates and I would be satisfied as a fan if any 4 of them won it. I'm just trying to make a point about the "Myth."

[bball2223]

I'm officially sold on Kobe Bryant. He is the best player in the NBA. I thought Lakers fans were just being homers but I sat down and watched every game of this series and Kobe did a great job of including his teammates. The Lakers are looking like a legit threat to take out the Spurs.

[Brandname]

None of these guys make their teammates better. They just make it easier for them.

If their teammates just suck naturally, you can only do so much for them. If they can't hit an open jump shot, Chris Paul isn't going to be able to make them shoot better.

[DaRizzle]

Originally Posted by Brandname

None of these guys make their teammates better. They just make it easier for them.

If their teammates just suck naturally, you can only do so much for them. If they can't hit an open jump shot, Kobe Bryant isn't going to be able to make them shoot better.

While I agree with what you said I think what I did to your quote made it more relevant since he is the one alway getting dragged in the dirt by this theory

[buduan]

Look at some of the legends of the game. Did Magic make Worthy better? Worthy put 39-10-10 on the great Piston defense in the '89 Finals with Magic out. Dennis Johnson was a all league player before he joined Bird in Boston. Pippen almost won the MVP the year Jordan sat out.

[SeaNet]

Not that I would expect many people on here to grasp this in the remotest sense, but it's about creating space for others to operate in. If you want to win big in the NBA playoffs, your best player better do that. If they don't, expect to be going home after a round or two every single year.