[f22egl]

Doug Collins is very intelligent and knows his stuff. From his stint in Washington, his teams tended to run a slow paced offense. While turnovers were kept to a minimum, there was little offense with fast breaks.

Collins has his fair shares of flaws as a head coach. For one, he is not an even keel kind of coach. He gets too excited after a win, and too critical after a loss. When he was with the Wizards with MJ, it was not uncommon for him to call out players to the media.

Collins also did not manage MJ well in Washington. Collins wanted Jordan to come off the bench in the 2002-03 season, but Jordan disagreed and eventually put himself into the starting lineup for the rest of the season. Instead of limiting a 40 year olds time on the court, Jordan's minutes were around 37 minutes per game and eventually was ineffective at the end of the season.

According to the Times, Jordan also affected Doug Collin's rotations. MJ made it clear to teammates that their willingness to pass to him would bear on their playing time. Point guard Larry Hughes, who shot early and often (who shot 47 fg%), was replaced by the more submissive Tyronn Lue.

Collins and Jordan ritually reduced Brown to tears in front of the team; the most notorious incident is when Jordan called Brown a flaming f*****. After Collins two year stint in Washington, most of the Wizards had tuned him out and he was fired.

His postseason record is 15-23 is not that impressive. Collins also failed to make the playoffs the past two seasons with the Wizards.

[afobisme]

really? did he gang up on kwame with MJ? and did MJ really do those things?

[Sliccat]

how is collins an upgrade at all?

[IntelligentlyDesigned]

Originally Posted by Seuss

Doug Collins probably knows the Suns team better then any other available coach. I'd really like to see him replace D'Antoni....either that or Kerr.

But Kerr said he wouldn't consider a coaching job until his children were done with school.

[afobisme]

Originally Posted by Sliccat

how is collins an upgrade at all?

he keeps his players in check (amare badly need someone to do that), and i think he's much more defensive minded than d'antoni (but who isn't?).

if you're going to trade shawn marion for shaq, i think it would be stupid to continue with an offense-only system. if you become more of a halfcourt team, you have to improve your defense.

[Dissonance19]

Yep, Suns had their chances and couldn't push through. I really don't think it could go much further with Nash at PG, and this team in general. Don't see a point in trying. In my opinion, it's too late for even a veteran coach to fix. I'd much rather them blow it up as much as they can and get it over with. Too many young and up and coming teams out there. Even if they were a 6-8th seed, I'd rather much be a lottery team. There's not that much upside, especially with how old this group is. With the Blazers, Warriors, and Clippers potentially getting better, they might not even make the playoffs next year. Waiting could set the franchise even further going for what is considered a pipe dream at this point.

And you don't want to wait til next yr to do it. No 2010 pick to build off of. Kerr thought it'd be a good idea to leave it unprotected.

[f22egl]

Originally Posted by afobisme

really? did he gang up on kwame with MJ? and did MJ really do those things?

Yup...

Early in the 2002-03 season SI learned that Jordan, then a sixth man, told coach Doug Collins that he would no longer come off the bench. (He started the rest of the year.) According to the Times, Jordan made it clear to teammates that their willingness to pass to him would bear on their playing time. Point guard Larry Hughes, who shot early and often, was replaced by the more submissive Tyronn Lue. That Jordan was expected to return to the executive suite after the season heightened the climate of trepidation. Reportedly, it was guard Richard Hamilton's willingness to stand up to Jordan that precipitated his being traded to the Pistons last summer.

As a leader Jordan proved more tormentor than mentor. Many Washington players got the business end of a Jordan harangue, but he designated second-year forward Kwame Brown as the whipping boy, referring to him, as reported by The Washington Post, as a "flaming ******." A source told SI that Jordan ritually reduced Brown to tears in front of the team. Brown, whom Jordan took with the first pick in the 2001 draft, showed flashes of brilliance, but his confidence was lacerated by a player who was once his idol. "Michael was tough," Wizards assistant John Bach tells SI. "But that's just who he is, attempting to make [his teammates] better."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si_...2003/05/06/sc/

Last year, in Collins' first season, the expectations were low, and the mix was pleasant. They overachieved to win 37 games because they had solid perimeter shooters in Chris Whitney, Hubert Davis and Ty Lue, and a dependable energy guy in Popeye Jones. If Michael and Hamilton had stayed healthy, they would've coasted into the playoffs.

But the stakes were raised this year because of the Stackhouse deal -- coupled with the fact that it was Michael's final season -- and you could tell from the beginning Collins couldn't deal. He felt it HAD to be a playoff year, and he himself caved under the pressure. He had promised he wouldn't micromanage this season, and, in particular, that he wouldn't abuse Brown, the former high school No. 1 pick. But all it took was an inconsistent start to set him off. He may not have yelled at Kwame as much this year, but instead he'd bench Kwame, wink and say in press conferences, "I played the guys I trusted." That's micromanaging, buddy. When the team was playing its best, freest basketball -- winning six of seven in January -- Collins called a four-game homestand against Toronto, Orlando , Philly and Denver the most important stretch of the season. In January? In one fell swoop, he'd turned a loose team into a tight team, and it lost two of those four games. He'd also pledged to reduce Michael's minutes, but he frantically began playing the 40-year-old man 37 a game.

Doug Collins, left, got caught up in his own sense of urgency.
Collins just never figured out how to get through to the team, and, for some reason, everybody (Michael, Charles Oakley, etc). kept pointing at Kwame and kept lambasting Kwame. The kid's 21! Stop being impatient for once. Collins always talks about a lack of defense and lack of energy on the Wizards. That's on him! He's the coach, and they're clearly tuning him out. I'm sick of Mike Fratello and every other announcer kissing his rear. Let me be the first to lambaste Collins, not Kwame.

http://espn.go.com/nba/columns/misc/1534627.html

[Tragedy]

I don't know. While its messed up what Jordan did with Kwame, at what point do you draw the line if you're Kwame Brown.

Sure Jordan is Jordan and he may be your childhood hero, but you're a man now - so stand up and tell him to shut the eff up.

[f22egl]

Originally Posted by Tragedy

I don't know. While its messed up what Jordan did with Kwame, at what point do you draw the line if you're Kwame Brown.

Sure Jordan is Jordan and he may be your childhood hero, but you're a man now - so stand up and tell him to shut the eff up.

You have to remember Kwame Brown was only 19-20 when he played with Jordan.

If you want to read how immature Kwame Brown was, read the article below.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...112800709.html

Either way, most of the blame lies with Kwame Brown for not becoming a more productive player. He had a 2nd chance with Eddie Jordan. He had a 3rd chance with Phil Jackson. But MJ breaking his spirit may have had an impact as well especially in the early years of his career.

[afobisme]

does anyone know what happened between him and gilbert?