 |
|
05-09-2008, 04:17 AM
|
#31 (permalink)
|
|
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,234
|
Re: A ring for Duncan this year puts him ahead of Bird and Magic.
duncan already passed bird and magic.
|
|
|
|
Sponsored Links
|
Advertisement
|
|
|
05-09-2008, 04:47 AM
|
#32 (permalink)
|
|
Miami Heat Groupie :)
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Manila, Philippines
Age: 20
Posts: 6,288
|
Re: A ring for Duncan this year puts him ahead of Bird and Magic.
What a ridiculously pointless argument.
Let's talk about Obama.
__________________
Official Lindsay Lohan Fan Club! (Founder: OZZY) 1)gian 2)OZZY 3)alex 4)madman 5)Zach 6)bruno34115 7)Chris 8)shyFX325 9)Pacers Fan 10)nmuman 11)ian 12)EddyCurry4MVP13)R-Star 14) Basketball Fan 15)Nine 16)LeBronisnumba1 17)indiana_07_pacers 18)BrYaNBaIlEy06 19)nmuman 20)WhoDaBest23 21)Eagles in 2003 22) DaUnbreakableKinG 23)toros_locos 24)<< SkipToMyLou >> 25)crespi_jv_21 26) ST 27) Bird Fan33 28) DaBigTicketKG21 29) kisstherim 30) The Mad Viking 31) garnett 32)theLegend 33)philipm27 34)SoCalfan21 35)thug_immortal8 36)tempe85 37)Bron_Melo_ROY 38)B Dizzle 39)superdude211 40)Kirk20 41)Grandmazter3 42)Gilbert Arenas 43)TAllen42 44)shookem 45)TheBigDonut
PM me to join!
|
|
|
|
05-09-2008, 05:26 AM
|
#33 (permalink)
|
|
Player
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 957
|
Re: A ring for Duncan this year puts him ahead of Bird and Magic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PauloCatarino
This is an interesting post. I have thought many times that Duncan resembles Bill Russell: great defense, not-so-dominant-stats, a winner and clutch player with multiple championships who is easy to build a championship team around.
When we think about the all-time great players, only 2 come to mind that weren't dominant offensive players: Russell and Duncan.
|
Russell HAD dominant stats, just not scoring stats. He averaged 22.5 rpg over his career, the highest (non-Wilt) player other than Russell was Pettit with 16. If Duncan was averaging 19-20 rebounds a game that would be the equivalent (though Duncan IS an excellent scorer too, unlike Russell)
Duncan is easily top 10 all-time. Comparing him to Magic and Bird because of rings isn't quite as interesting to me as comparing him to Shaq, Hakeem, and Moses where they are all pivotmen and comprise the second tier of great pivots behind Russell, Wilt, and Kareem. Those 7 big men plus Jordan, Magic, and Bird are probably the top 10 players all time (though Dr. J, Oscar and Jerry West might argue)
__________________
If you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk
|
|
|
|
|
05-09-2008, 10:35 AM
|
#34 (permalink)
|
|
Cat Launcher
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Vancouver, BC
Age: 25
Posts: 4,024
|
Re: A ring for Duncan this year puts him ahead of Bird and Magic.
When you talk about all time greats, once you get into that elite group at the top it's difficult to say who is better than the other. Only MJ and Wilt clearly separate themselves from the rest of the pack, but for the rest of them, it's pretty much impossible for people to reach any type of agreement on who's better. Times are different, league is different, and even people's memories change over the years.
If people want to argue about this they should just argue about whether Duncan should be considered amongst the elite, and not simply comparing him to Bird or Magic or Kareem. You're not going to achieve much comparing player to player when they play in different eras.
|
|
|
|
|
05-09-2008, 10:43 AM
|
#35 (permalink)
|
|
All-Star
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 8,219
|
Re: A ring for Duncan this year puts him ahead of Bird and Magic.
bird had 7 top 2 mvp finishes, 9 top 4s and 11 top 10s. to say he had 4 to 5 top seasons obviously isn't very accurate.
|
|
|
|
|
05-09-2008, 10:24 PM
|
#36 (permalink)
|
|
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Virginia
Age: 17
Posts: 2,222
|
Re: A ring for Duncan this year puts him ahead of Bird and Magic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kflo
bird had 7 top 2 mvp finishes, 9 top 4s and 11 top 10s. to say he had 4 to 5 top seasons obviously isn't very accurate.
|
who gives a **** about mvp awards?
|
|
|
|
|
05-10-2008, 07:51 AM
|
#37 (permalink)
|
|
Player
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Chicago, IL
Age: 17
Posts: 989
|
Re: A ring for Duncan this year puts him ahead of Bird and Magic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBaronRudigor
Russell HAD dominant stats, just not scoring stats. He averaged 22.5 rpg over his career, the highest (non-Wilt) player other than Russell was Pettit with 16. If Duncan was averaging 19-20 rebounds a game that would be the equivalent (though Duncan IS an excellent scorer too, unlike Russell)
Duncan is easily top 10 all-time. Comparing him to Magic and Bird because of rings isn't quite as interesting to me as comparing him to Shaq, Hakeem, and Moses where they are all pivotmen and comprise the second tier of great pivots behind Russell, Wilt, and Kareem. Those 7 big men plus Jordan, Magic, and Bird are probably the top 10 players all time (though Dr. J, Oscar and Jerry West might argue)
|
Oscar Robertson is arguably a top 10 player of all time? 
__________________
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Andres Nocioni
I know nothing(about football). I just root for Chicago.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by kulaz3000
Don't even get me started on Megan Fox, that girl is amazing. She looks like sex.
|
|
|
|
|
|
05-10-2008, 08:36 AM
|
#38 (permalink)
|
|
All-Star
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 8,219
|
Re: A ring for Duncan this year puts him ahead of Bird and Magic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deke
who gives a **** about mvp awards?
|
if a guy finishes in the top 2 7 freakin times, would a claim that he was a top player for 4-5 years make any sense?
|
|
|
|
|
05-10-2008, 10:51 AM
|
#39 (permalink)
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Sunny Orlando
Posts: 3,375
|
Re: A ring for Duncan this year puts him ahead of Bird and Magic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Dub
Oscar Robertson is arguably a top 10 player of all time? |
I was gonna say..what a ridiculous statement. IMO Oscar Robertson is the greatest player of all time. Anyway, Duncan is already on the same tier as Bird and Magic. It's not debatable.
|
|
|
|
|
05-10-2008, 11:43 AM
|
#40 (permalink)
|
|
All-Star
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Braga, Portugal
Posts: 8,979
|
Re: A ring for Duncan this year puts him ahead of Bird and Magic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBaronRudigor
Russell HAD dominant stats, just not scoring stats.
|
Sorry. My bad. I meant dominant offensive stats.
Quote:
|
He averaged 22.5 rpg over his career, the highest (non-Wilt) player other than Russell was Pettit with 16. If Duncan was averaging 19-20 rebounds a game that would be the equivalent (though Duncan IS an excellent scorer too, unlike Russell)
|
Hmmm... Does anyone know where to findt Wilt and Russell's RebRate or TRB%? Basketball-reference.com doesn't have it...
Quote:
|
Duncan is easily top 10 all-time. Comparing him to Magic and Bird because of rings isn't quite as interesting to me as comparing him to Shaq, Hakeem, and Moses where they are all pivotmen and comprise the second tier of great pivots behind Russell, Wilt, and Kareem. Those 7 big men plus Jordan, Magic, and Bird are probably the top 10 players all time (though Dr. J, Oscar and Jerry West might argue)
|
IMHO, that would depend on the criteria being used. Championships, Finals Appearences, MVPs, All-Nba teams, All-defense teams, era, stats, production. dominance, etc., can all tip the balance one way or the other regarding the greatest players ranking.
IMHO, these are some players who, independent of criteria, have a place in the Top-10, regardless of ranking: Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Jordan and Oscar. That leaves 3 spots open.
Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, Jerry West, Karl Malone, Dr. J, Moses Malone can all be argued.
__________________
(...) we shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender (...)
|
|
|
|
|
A ring for Duncan this year puts him ahead of Bird and Magic.
