[f22egl]

Originally Posted by IceMan23and3

They're both rules that were broken and not called that resulted in an incorrect scoring of points. Why is one more important than the other?

For one thing, the goaltend requires video evidence. To be honest, I don't remember it and it requires a second look as did the traveling violation on LeBron.

[f22egl]

I just watched the highlights of the game to look for the mysterious goaltend and guess what? LeBron traveled on two separate occasions in the final minute which led to two Cleveland field goals. Didn't find clip of goaltend.

http://broadband.nba.com/cc/playa.ph...nk&nbasite=nba

[23isback]

I don't think Lebron was arguing the validity of the call. He was more like "Are you serious? I'm Lebron ****ing James!!"

[DNKO]

Originally Posted by f22egl

I just watched the highlights of the game to look for the mysterious goaltend and guess what? LeBron traveled on two separate occasions in the final minute which led to two Cleveland field goals. Didn't find clip of goaltend.

http://broadband.nba.com/cc/playa.ph...nk&nbasite=nba

Hey, I'm not from US but seeing your location - are you familiar with a person called Peter Rosenberg, radio host?

Anyway - no use of pointing out James' travels. It's really happening on every game basis and it's nothing to get concerned about.

It's only worrying if he does it when the outcome of the game is on the line.

[futuristxen]

Originally Posted by Dee-Zy

Am I wrong to think that it wouldn't have been a travel if:

Bron landed on both his feet and then hopped?
or
in the same movement that he did, he dribble the ball one more time instead?

That was my thinking. I thought the move was pretty sound as an idea, but his timing on the move was off. Timing is usually the difference between great footwork and traveling like a mother****er. It's why he drives so many haters crazy though, because his timing is usually so on the edge, that he sometimes looks like he's traveling when he's actually not. He just moves so fast too, and he's usually being fouled while it's happening, that it's amazing that refs can ever make a call on it. Remember refs don't have instant replay, and they are watching a lot of things at once in real time.

[futuristxen]

Oh and I think what Lebron is referring to as a "crab dribble" is what Chris Richards is talking about. Where he lets the ball bounce really high on his dribble into his cupped(crabbed) hand, before controlling it and going on with the move. That's why he is saying that the first step is after that. It IS a debate of when Lebron actually stopped his dribble.

I can show you youtubes of Michael Jordan taking five steps between two dribbles in similar moves that weren't called double dribbles.

[DNKO]

Originally Posted by futuristxen

I can show you youtubes of Michael Jordan taking five steps between two dribbles in similar moves that weren't called double dribbles.

Damn. I know the video. That video has already been posted here.

That was not a double dribble.

[kirov]

Originally Posted by ChrisRichards

Where's your argument?

none? ok, go back to your hole.

I don't need an argument, the video speaks for itself.
Travelling was so obvious,refs HAD to call it,otherwise he would probably get away with another one.
(besides,I think the future of NBA would be in serious trouble if Lebron would get away with this in every game-get the ball on the 3pt line,hold it,take one large step+one bunny hop and lay it in)

[Hyperion]

Originally Posted by kirov

I don't need an argument, the video speaks for itself.
Travelling was so obvious,refs HAD to call it,otherwise he would probably get away with another one.
(besides,I think the future of NBA would be in serious trouble if Lebron would get away with this in every game-get the ball on the 3pt line,hold it,take one large step+one bunny hop and lay it in)

Just to note, it wouldn't have been a travel had both his feet hit the ground at the same time and took off from both feet. That's pretty much Wade's bread and butter-- his ability to jump stop better than anyone else in the league.

[ChrisRichards]

Caron Butler is on the wizards. whatever he says about LeBron is biased

[Jamel Irief]

Originally Posted by futuristxen

That was my thinking. I thought the move was pretty sound as an idea, but his timing on the move was off. Timing is usually the difference between great footwork and traveling like a mother****er. It's why he drives so many haters crazy though, because his timing is usually so on the edge, that he sometimes looks like he's traveling when he's actually not. He just moves so fast too, and he's usually being fouled while it's happening, that it's amazing that refs can ever make a call on it. Remember refs don't have instant replay, and they are watching a lot of things at once in real time.

I think it's funny that LeBron haters drive you crazy when it's the same stuff you were doing to Kobe back in the day.

[kflo]

Originally Posted by ChrisRichards

Yes that is true.

That is the argument, did LeBron end his dribble conclusively or "cup the ball" BEFORE or AFTER his right foot touched the ground at 0:54?

In my eyes, it was after. Everything that happened before 0:54, to me, is still dribbling. He could technically push the ball back down to the ground at a weirder angle and it would be a legal dribble. He didn't cup the ball yet, in my eyes, until after the right foot is on the ground. I am sure LeBron timed it to do this.

Anyway, If it was after, then it's not a travel because it's only 2 steps.

sometimes it really is easier to just say i was wrong.

so, from above, you're acknowledging that it's no longer the 2nd hand on ball that stops the dribble, it's the "cupping"? all that rules quoting highlighting "both hands", and now we're focusing on cupping? all that analysis from you that starts the clock when his 2nd hand touches the ball, and now it's the cupping that starts the clock, but the result of your analysis is the same?

again, just acknowledge at this point you don't really know what you're talking about.

or, you probably should quote the rule that states cupping the ball is where the dribble ends.

[kflo]

Originally Posted by futuristxen

Oh and I think what Lebron is referring to as a "crab dribble" is what Chris Richards is talking about. Where he lets the ball bounce really high on his dribble into his cupped(crabbed) hand, before controlling it and going on with the move. That's why he is saying that the first step is after that. It IS a debate of when Lebron actually stopped his dribble.

I can show you youtubes of Michael Jordan taking five steps between two dribbles in similar moves that weren't called double dribbles.

lebron does nothing different on this move than every other player - he dribbles, then he picks up his dribble on his drive. there's no really high dribble, there's no special dribble, it's the same motion every player does - the only difference is in how he takes the steps afterwards, and how he brings the ball up high mid-move.

[f22egl]

Originally Posted by DNKO

Hey, I'm not from US but seeing your location - are you familiar with a person called Peter Rosenberg, radio host?

Anyway - no use of pointing out James' travels. It's really happening on every game basis and it's nothing to get concerned about.

It's only worrying if he does it when the outcome of the game is on the line.

No I'm not familiar with Peter Rosenberg.

The game I was referring to was Game 3 of the 2006 playoffs. I agree it's nothing new but I almost forgot that LeBron had traveled on two separate occasions which ultimately gave the Cavs the win in the final minute of the game.

I think LeBron is a great player but the game should not be handicapped in his favor by the refs especially during the closing moments of a game. LeBron can finish game winners without the refs help as indicated by game 5 of the 2006 against the Wizards.

[f22egl]

Jalen Rose on the "crab dribble" - with a slow-mo replay

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpQBD672HkQ

And here's an example of the crab dribble

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5m0GjaBYio