Now that we see Lebron's future a little more clearly

[Drewbs]

I've got to wonder. Does this potentially take him out of the GOAT discussion? Kevin Garnett left the T'Wolves for a ring when it was obvious he was never going to win in Minnesota, but winning as a sidekick really cemented the fact that he is never going to be considered above Tim Duncan even if he was probably more talented. Same with Kobe, never really in the discussion for one of the greatest ever until he won without Shaq and was the undisputed alpha dog on his team.

Lebron James basically passed up the opportunity to lead potentially talented teams to championships and build a franchise up to go play in Miami and team up with two other superstars who may have been a top team even without him. And its not just like Kobe leading a team with Gasol at the helm or Jordan leading a team with Scottie Pippen as a co-captain, he is teaming up with a perennial all star Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade, who is arguably the 2nd or 3rd best player in the league, an MVP caliber player, and a guy who has led a team to a title in the past as the best player. He is basically taking a backseat role and jumped at a safe bet at a championship. I honestly could never see Jordan doing that. I couldn't even see Kobe doing that. Or Tim Duncan. Or Shaq. At least not in their primes. These guys made their teams contenders. They won as the undisputed best players and undisputed leaders on their team.

[Cap]

Nope. If his numbers are there, and he's clearly the best player (which he could still very well be on that team), then he'll get the GOAT credit he deserves. But he actually has to prove it by performing in the postseason in the games that matter most and coming out on top, all else equal.

[futuristxen]

It will come down to rings and how many he can get with this crew. I also think you'll see a very diffrent style of play from him. More Magic Johnson Lebron than Jordan. And I think he will focus in on his defense more now that he has help on offense. He could be even more of a monster on the Heat, even though I doubt he'll average above 20 ppg.

I think it will help all 3 players legacies if they win a bunch of titles.

[Basel]

Originally Posted by futuristxen

It will come down to rings and how many he can get with this crew. I also think you'll see a very diffrent style of play from him. More Magic Johnson Lebron than Jordan. And I think he will focus in on his defense more now that he has help on offense. He could be even more of a monster on the Heat, even though I doubt he'll average above 20 ppg.

I think it will help all 3 players legacies if they win a bunch of titles.

Really? Do you actually believe he won't average 20 ppg? That's just stupid.

[futuristxen]

There's also going to be a few years at the back end where Wade will be out of his prime while Bosh and Lebron will still be in it. And he could very well win a ring then without Wade as the main guy.

[futuristxen]

Originally Posted by Basel

Really? Do you actually believe he won't average 20 ppg? That's just stupid.

It will be close. But I think Wade and Bosh are going to be the scorers on the team. Lebron will be racking up the assist numbers on the fast break. I think he will have Magic Johnson numbers.

[Drewbs]

I agree that he'll be more of a passer with the Heat and might even average that triple double seeing how thin they're going to be up front. But you brought up Magic, so lets consider Magic. Magic won his first few titles with Kareem as the team's leader and best player. But he wasn't really considered one of the greatest until it was obvious that Kareem was at the point where he couldn't dominate every night and be the guy who carried his team to a title anymore and Magic stepped up and carried his team to even more championships. Its the same with Kobe, lets be honest, no matter what kinds of stats or individual records that he broke he was never going to win a championship until he won one without Shaq. And until his team repeated this season, there was never any real serious talk about Kobe being one of the all time greatest. He'll never be the greatest, he just isn't as good as Jordan was. And even with Kobe playing atrocious in game 7 of the finals, it was always HIS team, he was the reason they were contenders. You never had the feeling that you could replace him with an inferior player and they'd be championship material because Gasol simply is not a first option guy on a championship caliber team.

Those are the two best examples I can really think of because both Kobe and Magic won rings as the undisputed best players on their teams, the undisputed leaders of their teams, but also won championships where they were just great players as a cog to a team built around a greater player.

I think it'd be sort of stupid for Bosh and Wade to be the scorers on that team seeing that LBJ is a better scorer than both of them. In fact outside of rebounding in the case of Bosh (and even that I'm not so sure about) there is nothing better that either Wade or Bosh does than Lebron.

[Laker Freak]

Lebron will score 20 ppg on fast break dunks, put backs and free throws alone.

[GTA Addict]

I can see him easily being brought up in GOAT discussions if the Heat win multiple titles with LeBron being the best player, even if Wade is the leading scorer. If he does play a different style and puts up Magic-type numbers from now on, it'll speak to his versatility. We may not have seen the best of LeBron yet. He may very well excel much more playing that style as opposed to the Jordanesque cutthroat scorer that people wanted him to be in Cleveland.

[BadBaronRudigor]

LeBron will improve his GOAT status mostif he
(a) actually wins titles with the Heat
(b) continues to be the leading scorer on the team

LeBron will keep his GOAT status about where people expected before this year if he
(a) wins one title with the Heat
(b) is 1A/1B with Wade as scorers on the team

LeBron will slip if he
(a) still can't win, even if it is due to Wade injuries or the like
(b) ends up with less than at least one of 20ppg, 10rpg, 10 apg sharing the lead . . . even if he is an 18/8/8 player

[Luke]

LeBron is going to have to go completely Magic Johnson instead of this psudeo Magic/Jordan thing he's been doing for years. I'm expecting a statline like 23/8/10 whereas Wade may be the main scorer slasher.

[E.H. Munro]

Originally Posted by Basel

Really? Do you actually believe he won't average 20 ppg? That's just stupid.

You should look at the history of teams with three guys averaging 20/game.

[jericho]

Like the Doug Moe Nuggets and the Don Nelson Warriors.

[Cap]

He'll probably put up 25/8/10/50%+ in limited minutes, like 36 mpg or something unless they really strike out in FA/trade this summer and he has to play 39-41. One thing he needs to do is really improve his off the ball movement in the half-court, that's a much bigger weakness than his mid-range game. His off-ball movement in the open court is obviously one of the greatest of all time, but in the half-court he really struggles to consistently get his shots without the ball. I know he'll play PG basically, but nonetheless he needs to make a deliberate effort to improve that part of his game.

[Diable]

I sort of figure this is a short term move. When that ETO rolls around Wade probably won't look like the same guy he does now and that's probably the Heat's window right there.