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Old 12-29-2011, 09:19 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Re: No League for Old Men

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Wait, so every superstar is finished except for your heat? Thanks for the information. Right now the league is in chaos since teams haven't settled on their offenses or defenses. This means that a lot of plays are relying on the raw athleticism of the players rather than savvy. Chris Paul is manning a team that he's been on for a week.

As for kobe, either he learns how to finally be a playmaker or will be finished.
You completely missed the point. It's about the qualitative phrases "young" and "old" not meaning today what they did in the past. Somebody who was called young 15 years ago is actually old in today's landscape. Kobe being finished is just an example of how players are maturing sooner and careers are being sped up. It's unheard of for a player that good to fall so far relative to his peers at only 33. It shows just how old 33 is in today's game.

Players like Dirk and Kobe and LeBron are transcendent players and they're always going to compete for titles. But people are too often misunderstanding what stage they are in their career. For example, I don't want to hear Chris Paul called a young player. He's a "veteran" and soon he will be "old." I would even call Wade "old." Wade's age actually really worries me for the future of my team.
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Old 12-29-2011, 09:26 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Re: No League for Old Men

Paul is a year younger than Lebron and what two years younger than Wade. How many players in the NBA are keener mentally or more skilled than he is? He is probably less reliant on athletic ability than any other superstar. You should probably worry about Miami more. Their window is slamming shut as we speak.
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Old 12-29-2011, 09:26 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Re: No League for Old Men

I see your point. You're arguing verbiage. What if young ment developing, prime meant peak and veteran mends past his prime but knows the game well enough to help you win.
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Old 12-29-2011, 09:27 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Re: No League for Old Men

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You completely missed the point. It's about the qualitative phrases "young" and "old" not meaning today what they did in the past. Somebody who was called young 15 years ago is actually old in today's landscape. Kobe being finished is just an example of how players are maturing sooner and careers are being sped up. It's unheard of for a player that good to fall so far relative to his peers at only 33. It shows just how old 33 is in today's game.

Players like Dirk and Kobe and LeBron are transcendent players and they're always going to compete for titles. But people are too often misunderstanding what stage they are in their career. For example, I don't want to hear Chris Paul called a young player. He's a "veteran" and soon he will be "old." I would even call Wade "old." Wade's age actually really worries me for the future of my team.
How good was Larry Bird at age 33? Or Magic Johnson? Or Oscar Robertson? Or even Clyde Drexler? 33 is ****ing old. And it's not even like he's fallen off a mountain or anything, he's just not one of the 3 best players in the league anymore. He's somewhere in the 4-7 range, and that's pretty damn good for a 33 year old, 16 year vet. I'm just not seeing what you're trying to say here.

Chris Paul isn't a young player anymore. 26 isn't young. It's prime time. If his knees hold up these next three years will probably be the best that he is ever going to play. But he's certainly not old. Wade is still in his prime too, he may have already peaked, but he is still enjoying the best stretch of his career.
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Old 12-29-2011, 09:32 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Re: No League for Old Men

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Jordan was in no way a top-five player when he retired.
1st, 2nd or 3rd time?
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Old 12-29-2011, 09:33 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Re: No League for Old Men

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Paul is a year younger than Lebron and what two years younger than Wade. How many players in the NBA are keener mentally or more skilled than he is? He is probably less reliant on athletic ability than any other superstar. You should probably worry about Miami more. Their window is slamming shut as we speak.
LeBron is old. And I truly feel that next year when he's 27, seven years completed in the league, people should be calling Paul an old player as well.

And I've consistently said that transcendent players, talking greatest ever players, affect the landscape in spite of old age. I did however say that Paul isn't one of those players. So LeBron and the Heat will be fine but not Paul.

People are misinterpreting the thread title to be a slight against old players. I said in the first sentence that young players don't win anything. Old players will still win, but the old players of today are going to be late 20's. The days of 30 year olds being superstars is over. And of course I mean "superstars" in the overused generic sense. Not the Kobe, Bird, and LeBron class. Those guys will hang on a little longer like Kobe is, but be declining.
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Old 12-29-2011, 09:43 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Re: No League for Old Men

Okay every player who does not play for the Heat is going to start falling apart because you think they transcend ordinary players who wear other uniforms. I see where you are coming from now.
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Old 12-29-2011, 09:48 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Re: No League for Old Men

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Okay every player who does not play for the Heat is going to start falling apart because you think they transcend ordinary players who wear other uniforms. I see where you are coming from now.
Hilarious how when people get mad at you they make pathetic claims of bias.

Yes, I think LeBron is a top 10 player all time and it takes me being a Heat fan to see it.

You salty because I think Paul is on the downhill side of his career? He plays the most generic position in basketball. He can shoot and pass. There are plenty of guys who can do that and they rebound, block shots, and shut down the opposing team. Every year there's a new Darren Collison, Ty Lawson, or Norris Cole available into the 2nd round of the draft. The talent nowadays is too deep for guys to be superstars into their 30's. Sorry that this pisses you off but don't intentionally misinterpret an easy concept just because you don't like what it means about your favorite player.

People didn't like the Kobe example but there's also Vince Carter and T-Mac as well. Players today are older a lot sooner than players in the past.
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Old 12-29-2011, 09:50 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Re: No League for Old Men

I'd be interested in seeing the rest of your top ten Adam.
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Old 12-30-2011, 02:49 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Re: No League for Old Men

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He plays the most generic position in basketball. He can shoot and pass.
This is a grossly broad and/or complete misevaluation of Chris Paul's game.
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Old 12-30-2011, 07:05 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Re: No League for Old Men

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This is a grossly broad and/or complete misevaluation of Chris Paul's game.
Generic is not the right word for it, but it would not be false to say that point guard seems to be the easiest position to fill in the last 5-6 years. I mean every night you have to go up against someone good it seems.
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Old 12-30-2011, 07:18 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Re: No League for Old Men

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Hilarious how when people get mad at you they make pathetic claims of bias.

Yes, I think LeBron is a top 10 player all time and it takes me being a Heat fan to see it.

You salty because I think Paul is on the downhill side of his career? He plays the most generic position in basketball. He can shoot and pass. There are plenty of guys who can do that and they rebound, block shots, and shut down the opposing team. Every year there's a new Darren Collison, Ty Lawson, or Norris Cole available into the 2nd round of the draft. The talent nowadays is too deep for guys to be superstars into their 30's. Sorry that this pisses you off but don't intentionally misinterpret an easy concept just because you don't like what it means about your favorite player.

People didn't like the Kobe example but there's also Vince Carter and T-Mac as well. Players today are older a lot sooner than players in the past.

Wow. This post should be quoted any time you act like you have any knowledge of the game of basketball.

According to most sports writers, commentators, GM's, players, ect the point guard position is the hardest to fill in the NBA. According to you though, its easy. Passing and shooting is easy. Funny a Heat fan would underrate the 1 spot, the most important position in the NBA.

And Paul is on the downswing of his career? Are you kidding me? Blake Griffin better enjoy the next year or 2, because after that he'll be in the bone yard right?

It is painful to see how you view the game. Its ignorant on so many levels. "In the past no one ever fell off at 33" uhhhhh, yea, pretty much most players always have. You've seen some highlights of Jordan and some other greats and seem to think everyone used to play great until they retired. You're wrong. I'm going to quit now before I post the countless other areas you're wrong in. I don't want this to turn into a half page post.
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Old 12-30-2011, 07:42 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Re: No League for Old Men

So far we have yet to see a young team win a title built around youth. So there's that. The Heat came close last year. But in the end lost to a much more experienced team. So I don't know that I agree with the premise of this thread.

When the Heat finally do win a title(if they do), they're going to look a lot closer to the normal age we get for champions, and Wade probably will win the finals MVP for the first one, and he'd be what...like 30/31? Right in range of previous winners.

It still takes time to learn how to win. And I don't think it's a given that the Thunder make it out of the West for that reason. Experience wise they're behind the Lakers/Mavs/Spurs still.
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Old 12-30-2011, 08:14 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Re: No League for Old Men

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1st, 2nd or 3rd time?
Exactly
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Old 12-30-2011, 08:34 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Re: No League for Old Men

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So far we have yet to see a young team win a title built around youth. So there's that. The Heat came close last year. But in the end lost to a much more experienced team. So I don't know that I agree with the premise of this thread.

When the Heat finally do win a title(if they do), they're going to look a lot closer to the normal age we get for champions, and Wade probably will win the finals MVP for the first one, and he'd be what...like 30/31? Right in range of previous winners.

It still takes time to learn how to win. And I don't think it's a given that the Thunder make it out of the West for that reason. Experience wise they're behind the Lakers/Mavs/Spurs still.
I was about to post almost this same thing. The last time a "young" team won a championship was the '91 Bulls, but that team had already been through the fire in the playoffs the three prior seasons.
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