No League for Old Men

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jamel Irief

Adam will show us in 3 years when Dwight Howard and Chris Paul will be finished and Norris Cole and Deandre Jordan are competing to win finals MVP.

I never said Norris Cole or DeAndre will be superstars. I said that young talented players shorten the longevity of superstars' careers. People call Chris Paul a young player and he's not. In today's game he is at the cusp of being old.

And for the people who keep reading the title and saying that I somehow think old players like Kobe don't win anything they obviously didn't even read the first sentence. Old players win in this league. The point is players are maturing sooner and becoming "old" sooner. Paul can still win Finals MVP because of his experience, just like Dirk did last year, but nobody would be dumb enough to argue that Dirk is young.

[Jamel Irief]

So your whole point was that Chris Paul isn't young? He may still dominate for six more years, but don't call him young.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jamel Irief

So your whole point was that Chris Paul isn't young? He may still dominate for six more years, but don't call him young.

Yes. Exactly.

People probably called Kobe young when he was 29 even though he was a 10 year vet. My whole point is he should have been called old and people should have been expecting him to drop out of the top 5 by the time he was 33. People have a distorted concept of what is young and old in today's NBA. Many GM's are going to get burned if they're trading for players and expecting to try to get the right pieces around them before they get progressively worse.

[R-Star]

Originally Posted by Adam

Yes. Exactly.

People probably called Kobe young when he was 29 even though he was a 10 year vet. My whole point is he should have been called old and people should have been expecting him to drop out of the top 5 by the time he was 33. People have a distorted concept of what is young and old in today's NBA. Many GM's are going to get burned if they're trading for players and expecting to try to get the right pieces around them before they get progressively worse.

A) No one called Kobe young at 29. They brought up the fact that even though 29, he had been in the league a lot longer since he was drafted out of highschool. Comparing that to Paul, who played college ball, is ignorant.

B) Why are you not replying to any of the posts bringing up the fact that your breakthrough discovery has been happening for as long as any of us have watched basketball? Countless players have been brought up. Slowing down when you hit your early 30's is not new. It may be new to you, but it is not new to anyone who has been paying attention to the game for a long time. There is always exceptions, there were exceptions back then, there are exceptions today, but the large majority of players slow down in their early 30's. Like they always have.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by R-Star

A) No one called Kobe young at 29. They brought up the fact that even though 29, he had been in the league a lot longer since he was drafted out of highschool. Comparing that to Paul, who played college ball, is ignorant.

B) Why are you not replying to any of the posts bringing up the fact that your breakthrough discovery has been happening for as long as any of us have watched basketball? Countless players have been brought up. Slowing down when you hit your early 30's is not new. It may be new to you, but it is not new to anyone who has been paying attention to the game for a long time. There is always exceptions, there were exceptions back then, there are exceptions today, but the large majority of players slow down in their early 30's. Like they always have.

A) Well I want to call Chris Paul old so you can preclude that I would have called Kobe older a lot sooner than 29. Chris Paul went to college for one year and I addressed one and dones. In the first post.

B) You're wrong. The average age of careers has shortened and players are retiring at younger ages. And the talent is getting good enough nowadays that player slowdowns are noticeable into the 20's not the 30's. LeBron already looks less athletic and he's in his mid 20's.

[R-Star]

Originally Posted by Adam

A) Well I want to call Chris Paul old so you can preclude that I would have called Kobe older a lot sooner than 29. Chris Paul went to college for one year and I addressed one and dones. In the first post.

B) You're wrong. The average age of careers has shortened and players are retiring at younger ages. And the talent is getting good enough nowadays that player slowdowns are noticeable into the 20's not the 30's. LeBron already looks less athletic and he's in his mid 20's.

Ohhhhh. I guess if you post "you're wrong" and say "careers are shorter these days" its good enough for me.

No stats needed. I trust you.

[Adam]

Edit: ^I was posting stats. Gimme a second lol.

Stats http://www.nba.com/news/survey_2007.html:

Players are getting smaller, lighter, and younger. It's starting to reflect the 80's (which can't be directly compared because the league was smaller in scope back then and very young).

Edit 2: Forgot that was the newest survey. But you get the idea. The trend is actually more extreme today than back when it was conducted, but the chart shows the trend.

[R-Star]

I'm looking under age on the link you posted and its about as static as you can get. I see no trend.

[M.V.W.]

This thread reminded me of some tweets (including one from Greg Anthony) which made an observation of the combined record of the Lakers, Celtics and Mavs yesterday. Guys are peaking earlier in recent years due to the age they begin playing and the level of competitiveness and ability they play with. By the time they reach the "peak" age, they've been playing at a high level for a while. Add in other things like injuries and you have the recipe for players being worn down in their early 30's.

Originally Posted by Jamel Irief

That's one of the worst gifs I've seen on this site, and that's saying a lot.

Originally Posted by R-Star

But I put so much work and effort into finding it......

[Adam]

Originally Posted by R-Star

I'm looking under age on the link you posted and its about as static as you can get. I see no trend.

In 2008 the league was the youngest it had been in 20 years. What are you talking about?

The league was the smallest height it had ever been. The shortest career length in 11 years.

And by all visual evidence and hearsay this trend has been exaggerated in recent years. Players have never been this short or young.

[R-Star]

Originally Posted by Adam

In 2008 the league was the youngest it had been in 20 years. What are you talking about?

The league was the smallest height it had ever been. The shortest career length in 11 years.

And by all visual evidence and hearsay this trend has been exaggerated in recent years. Players have never been this short or young.

The league was 26.89 years in 2007-2008. It was younger the 2 previous years of 2006 and 2005. So maybe you should read your own list before the whole "What are you talking about"

Not to mention the youngest age in 20 years was 26.53 in 86-87, and the oldest was 27.95 in 99-00. Where is this huge alarming jump in numbers? I work with numbers for a living and see a very static, stable variance in those 20 years.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by R-Star

The league was 26.89 years in 2007-2008. It was younger the 2 previous years of 2006 and 2005. So maybe you should read your own list before the whole "What are you talking about"

Not to mention the youngest age in 20 years was 26.53 in 86-87, and the oldest was 27.95 in 99-00. Where is this huge alarming jump in numbers? I work with numbers for a living and see a very static, stable variance in those 20 years.

If you work with numbers for a living I pity Canada. You're probably just drunk now, so I'm wasting my time.

[R-Star]

Originally Posted by Adam

If you work with numbers for a living I pity Canada. You're probably just drunk now, so I'm wasting my time.

Was 2008 the lowest in 20 years?

Send me a pm. We can work on your numbers.

[R-Star]

But I digress, it is almost 6pm and crew change time for R-Star. No point for arguments at this point, I think I accomplished what I wanted.

The best part is, you even posted the list of numbers for me. You then misquoted them, and also failed to understand that in 20 years on the list you showed, the high was in the middle, with the late 80's and late 00's being fairly similar.

In short, not only did you not prove your point. If anything you helped my disprove it.

Thank you Adam.

[Adam]

I showed you that over a seven year period the average length of an NBA career decreased 16%. I've read that career length today is below 4 years. That means that over the last 12 years the average career length has decreased by 25%. If I proved your point then thanks for agreeing with me that NBA careers are finishing sooner and players are getting younger.