Greatest Players of All Time (Wilt wins)

[Luke]

And I'm still waiting on the LeBron argument.

[XxIrvingxX]

Originally Posted by PauloCatarino

Nope.
There isn't.

Yea there actually is. His name is Karl Malone I'm sure you know who he is he played for your team at one point.

[Cinco de Mayo]

Originally Posted by Luke

Y'all know what we're doing here, Jordan took number one in a landslide.

1.) Jordan
2.) ?

Have at it, and remember, discussion is encouraged.

Dick Ricketts

[Cinco de Mayo]

Originally Posted by gian

Thank you for talking sense. Wilt was easy to shut down; and when he was shut down, his whole team collapsed because they knew no other way of playing. Russell, on the other hand, made his teammates better, and was generally harder to play against.

The myth of Wilt, and the disrespect Russell gets combine to make clear one certain fact: basketball's version of the holocaust has been forgotten i.e. people who know nothing of the greatness of these two men have decided that simply because of Wilt's "dominance" (numbers), he was the better player.

That's sad. Also: Wilt was traded twice. Yup. Best. Player. EVER. Traded twice. You don't hear that about the other players in this list. Think about that for a while.

Put him in the game today and he's Javale McGee.

This is why I never take these threads seriously. Because 15-year-olds from Japan will come in here and talk about how Wilt Chamberlain = JaVale McGee.

[Dornado]

Originally Posted by Cinco de Mayo

This is why I never take these threads seriously. Because 15-year-olds from Japan will come in here and talk about how Wilt Chamberlain = JaVale McGee.

At least it let me test out the "negative rep" feature for the first time

[PauloCatarino]

Originally Posted by XxIrvingxX

Yea there actually is. His name is Karl Malone I'm sure you know who he is he played for your team at one point.

Karl Malone didn't have to face the Dynasty Celtics. Who happen to be the greatest team ever.

[Nimreitz]

Wilt led the league in assists one year as a center. His career minutes per game average was 45.8. He was the ultimate pro. We've just gone through like 5 years of the best player in the league not winning a title because he came up against better teams, and you're really going to make that same hollow argument to discount an individual now?

[XxIrvingxX]

Originally Posted by PauloCatarino

Karl Malone didn't have to face the Dynasty Celtics. Who happen to be the greatest team ever.

STOP. Just stop. I can't even take you seriously right now.

You're calling the team that played in one of the weakest eras in NBA history the greatest team ever simply because they won 11 championships there was barely any competition that was able to go up against them? No, I'm sorry, I don't buy it. None of their 60s teams are even the greatest all time Celtic teams imo (the 86 Celtics are easily the greatest Celtic team ever, I don't see how you can argue against it). Granted, they had some damn good Celtic teams, but like I said, there is a large lack of talent from that era. The talent that Wilt faced was no where close to the talent that Karl Malone went up against considering how he played the freakin GREATEST PLAYER OF ALL TIME and one of the most dominant teams ever in the history of the NBA, the 90's Bulls, who unlike the 60s Celtics, were up against incredible talent.

I still can't believe you just called the 60s Celtics the greatest team ever. I know it's opinion based, but seriously? I wouldn't even have them in the top 10 for all time greatest teams.

[XxIrvingxX]

Originally Posted by Nimreitz

Wilt led the league in assists one year as a center. His career minutes per game average was 45.8. He was the ultimate pro. We've just gone through like 5 years of the best player in the league not winning a title because he came up against better teams, and you're really going to make that same hollow argument to discount an individual now?

Once again, the game was a lot more different at the time. Bringing up the stats doesn't really prove much.

[PauloCatarino]

Originally Posted by XxIrvingxX

STOP. Just stop. I can't even take you seriously right now.

You're calling the team that played in one of the weakest eras in NBA history the greatest team ever simply because they won 11 championships there was barely any competition that was able to go up against them? No, I'm sorry, I don't buy it. None of their 60s teams are even the greatest all time Celtic teams imo (the 86 Celtics are easily the greatest Celtic team ever, I don't see how you can argue against it). Granted, they had some damn good Celtic teams, but like I said, there is a large lack of talent from that era. The talent that Wilt faced was no where close to the talent that Karl Malone went up against considering how he played the freakin GREATEST PLAYER OF ALL TIME and one of the most dominant teams ever in the history of the NBA, the 90's Bulls, who unlike the 60s Celtics, were up against incredible talent.

I still can't believe you just called the 60s Celtics the greatest team ever. I know it's opinion based, but seriously? I wouldn't even have them in the top 10 for all time greatest teams.

You're funny.
So a team that won 11 championships ain't the greatest ever? Who comes close? Jordan's Bulls 6 championships? "Magic's" Lakers 5? lol
That Celtics team played against Pettit, Oscar, Wilt, West & Baylor, remember?

Context is important.

EDIT: But maybe we should start seeing things your way: erase the 50's and 60's from NBA history! Heck, let's forget about the 70's, while we're at it, cause that decade sucked.
All right by me.
But that being done, please stop talking about "Greatest of All Time". Let's just talk about "who was the greatest player from the 80's on".
Better yet, let's remove the 90's (era of ugly basketball).
Maybe we shall start talking about the "zone defense" era, cause the game changed. Yes, that's interesting: who was the Greatest Ever since Zone defenses were allowed"?

[XxIrvingxX]

Originally Posted by PauloCatarino

You're funny.
So a team that won 11 championships ain't the greatest ever? Who comes close? Jordan's Bulls 6 championships? "Magic's" Lakers 5? lol
That Celtics team played against Pettit, Oscar, Wilt, West & Baylor, remember?

Context is important.

Yea, like I said, very weak competition. You want to tell me that competition is more than facing Karl Malone and John Stockton, Gary Payton, Olajuwon, the Bad Boys team of the Pistons, Magic Johnson (the person MJ beat to win his first ever title), Clyde Drexler (don't really count him though, he was no where close to the player he once was when he and Jordan faced off in the finals), Charles Barkley (who won a MVP over Jordan in that year they faced each other in the finals), Reggie Miller and his Pacers squad, that one Knicks center who tried to be relevant but failed (I can't believe I actually managed to forget his name. I use to freakin love this guy and now I can't remember his name, unbelievable) and it wasn't just these players, their teams were stacked with talent (expect for that Knicks squad, ugh). And you still got David Robinson, Shaq, I could go on all day dude.

Now lets look at the people you mentioned shall we? I think I'll start with Pettit. God damn it, what can I say about good old Bob? The first ever winner of the MVP award, averaged, what, 25 points for his career? I think 16 boards for his career as well? A damn good center. And his team, boy oh boy what can you say about his team. He had two all stars playing by his side in Hagan and Macauley, both averaged around 18 points per game for their career, but nothing note worthy, although they were a huge factor to the Hawks winning it against the Celtics in...what was it, 58? I might make a lot of mistakes here since my memory isn't that good. After that though, they weren't much of a threat to the Celtics, in fact I don't even think they made it to the finals again after that with Pettit (again, I could be wrong on that). So not a very good mention.

Next up, Oscar. May I ask why you bothered mentioning him? He was on a horrible team that couldn't get anywhere, it wasn't until he got to Milwaukee that they actually were able to do something. Hell they actually ended up winning the NBA championship that year. Now I love this team still to this day, especially the combo of the young Kareem and the veteraned Oscar. It was just a damn good team. So if you're mentioning him just for his Milwaukee team, then I'll give you that one. But other then that, I see no reason to mention him.

So since the next three people you mentioned were all on the same team at one point, the Lakers, I'll talk about that first. Wilt gets outplayed by Russel when they face the Celtics, they lose, and unfortunately same case scenario with the Knicks. And this was a damn good team. Jerry West was Jerry West, he was so Jerry West that he won the freakin finals MVP while on the losing team. Of course Baylor was also great. But what about before Wilt was on the Lakers? The Lakers without Wilt faced the Celtics numerous times, with Russel making easy pickings at the center position since the Lakers had no one who could contend with that ****er so of course the Celtics won those series. It would be a huge disappointment if they didn't win those series. Some of the ones they didn't win WERE a disappointment.

Wilt of course was on a legendary 76ers team that did end up knocking out the Celtics a couple times so I'll give you that one. Even then though, still a disappointment. I mean the Bulls swept the legendary Detroit Pistons bad boys team after they couldn't win at all against them for three straight years, and this was when the Bulls team finally got all the pieces together. It was incredibly tough competition.

I won't deny that the Celtics had some tough, tough teams that they went up against in their time, but to even try to argue that the competition they faced was anywhere close to the competition the Bulls or Malone and the Jazz had to face, that alone is laughable.

I don't care how many championships they won. They had some great players on their different teams in that 60s era but at times it was almost too easy for them. The Bulls without Michael Jordan won more then 50 games in the regular season. That alone says it all. Once the Hawks stopped beinga threat, no one was able to stand a chance against the Celtics until the 76ers and Lakers came along, even by then the Celtics had already dominated most of the decade.

Edit: Oh now he's including sarcasm...THIS MEANS WARRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!

[Nimreitz]

Originally Posted by XxIrvingxX

Once again, the game was a lot more different at the time. Bringing up the stats doesn't really prove much.

Stats like minutes and assists from the center position are relevant in any era.

[XxIrvingxX]

Originally Posted by Nimreitz

Stats like minutes and assists from the center position are relevant in any era.

I didn't say they weren't relevant (or did I...), I'm saying that basing this off of stats alone won't prove much considering what era Wilt played in. If that happened these days that would be freaking incredible, but the thing is no teams play like that so I don't really see how that would be possible.

[PauloCatarino]

Originally Posted by XxIrvingxX

Yea, like I said, very weak competition. You want to tell me that competition is more than facing Karl Malone and John Stockton, Gary Payton, Olajuwon, the Bad Boys team of the Pistons, Magic Johnson (the person MJ beat to win his first ever title), Clyde Drexler (don't really count him though, he was no where close to the player he once was when he and Jordan faced off in the finals), Charles Barkley (who won a MVP over Jordan in that year they faced each other in the finals), Reggie Miller and his Pacers squad, that one Knicks center who tried to be relevant but failed (I can't believe I actually managed to forget his name. I use to freakin love this guy and now I can't remember his name, unbelievable) and it wasn't just these players, their teams were stacked with talent (expect for that Knicks squad, ugh). And you still got David Robinson, Shaq, I could go on all day dude.

Now lets look at the people you mentioned shall we? I think I'll start with Pettit. God damn it, what can I say about good old Bob? The first ever winner of the MVP award, averaged, what, 25 points for his career? I think 16 boards for his career as well? A damn good center. And his team, boy oh boy what can you say about his team. He had two all stars playing by his side in Hagan and Macauley, both averaged around 18 points per game for their career, but nothing note worthy, although they were a huge factor to the Hawks winning it against the Celtics in...what was it, 58? I might make a lot of mistakes here since my memory isn't that good. After that though, they weren't much of a threat to the Celtics, in fact I don't even think they made it to the finals again after that with Pettit (again, I could be wrong on that). So not a very good mention.

Next up, Oscar. May I ask why you bothered mentioning him? He was on a horrible team that couldn't get anywhere, it wasn't until he got to Milwaukee that they actually were able to do something. Hell they actually ended up winning the NBA championship that year. Now I love this team still to this day, especially the combo of the young Kareem and the veteraned Oscar. It was just a damn good team. So if you're mentioning him just for his Milwaukee team, then I'll give you that one. But other then that, I see no reason to mention him.

So since the next three people you mentioned were all on the same team at one point, the Lakers, I'll talk about that first. Wilt gets outplayed by Russel when they face the Celtics, they lose, and unfortunately same case scenario with the Knicks. And this was a damn good team. Jerry West was Jerry West, he was so Jerry West that he won the freakin finals MVP while on the losing team. Of course Baylor was also great. But what about before Wilt was on the Lakers? The Lakers without Wilt faced the Celtics numerous times, with Russel making easy pickings at the center position since the Lakers had no one who could contend with that ****er so of course the Celtics won those series. It would be a huge disappointment if they didn't win those series. Some of the ones they didn't win WERE a disappointment.

Wilt of course was on a legendary 76ers team that did end up knocking out the Celtics a couple times so I'll give you that one. Even then though, still a disappointment. I mean the Bulls swept the legendary Detroit Pistons bad boys team after they couldn't win at all against them for three straight years, and this was when the Bulls team finally got all the pieces together. It was incredibly tough competition.

I won't deny that the Celtics had some tough, tough teams that they went up against in their time, but to even try to argue that the competition they faced was anywhere close to the competition the Bulls or Malone and the Jazz had to face, that alone is laughable.

I don't care how many championships they won. They had some great players on their different teams in that 60s era but at times it was almost too easy for them. The Bulls without Michael Jordan won more then 50 games in the regular season. That alone says it all. Once the Hawks stopped beinga threat, no one was able to stand a chance against the Celtics until the 76ers and Lakers came along, even by then the Celtics had already dominated most of the decade.

Edit: Oh now he's including sarcasm...THIS MEANS WARRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!

Allrighty then. I guess that ends the issue.

[hobojoe]

Originally Posted by PauloCatarino

You're funny.
So a team that won 11 championships ain't the greatest ever? Who comes close? Jordan's Bulls 6 championships? "Magic's" Lakers 5? lol
That Celtics team played against Pettit, Oscar, Wilt, West & Baylor, remember?

Context is important.

Context is important. 11 championships in 13 years in a league that had 8 teams for most of those years is not as impressive as 6 championships in 8 years in a 28 team league IMO.