Camelo Anthony - Hall of Fame chances?

[ChrisWoj]

Originally Posted by Diable

Reggie Miller is in, albeit largely on longevity. Hard to say that Dumars is better than Melo, even though I like Joe a ton as a player. As much as I think that Melo is overrated he's a lot better than Reggie. He is quite similar to Adrian Dantley as a player and AD did have to wait awhile. If you judge Melo against the lowest tiers of inducted players it's hard to not see him getting in.

One quote is enough for me with Joe Dumars... I'm paraphrasing but:

"Joe Dumars is the toughest defender I ever faced." - Michael Jordan.

If Joe Dumars isn't high up on the all time defense rankings as one of the best defensive 2-guards the league has had, you're all crazy. And on top of that he was a very good shooter.

[Diable]

How many players worse than Dumars have been inducted into the Hall of Fame in the past 20 years?

[ChrisWoj]

If you aren't going to overrate pure scoring numbers... I am only going to look at guards here. It is tough to quantify a guard vs a big.

He was on tier with Calvin Murphy.
Better than old schooler Buddy Jeannette.
He was better than Gail Goodrich.
He was defensively on par with David Thompson offensively.
Definitely had a better career than George Yardley.
Petro was important, and had the potential to maybe be better but Joe D > Petro.
Dantley was a prolific scorer, but Joe's D was on par.


Gervin was better than him.
Isiah was better than him.
Magic was better than him.
Clyde was better than him.
Jordan was better than him.
Stockton was better than him.
Dennis Johnson was better than him.


Amongst those inducted, Joe was definitely a middle of the pack Hall of Famer. The guys on that second list are almost entirely "Inner Circle" all time greats. Joe was on the tier below them.

[Diable]

I guess you never saw Thompson play. Maybe you should ask Michael Jordan about him. Dumars is nowhere near that conversation and it just sounds crazy to argue otherwise. You're wrong about Calvin Johnson and Goodrich too.

The short answer is that Dumars is pretty much the worst player to get into the Hall of Fame in recent memory. Is that true or not?

[MarioChalmers]

Carmelo Anthony? Hall of fame? Why? Is Glenn Robinson in the hall of fame?

[ChrisWoj]

Originally Posted by Diable

I guess you never saw Thompson play. Maybe you should ask Michael Jordan about him. Dumars is nowhere near that conversation and it just sounds crazy to argue otherwise. You're wrong about Calvin Johnson and Goodrich too.

The short answer is that Dumars is pretty much the worst player to get into the Hall of Fame in recent memory. Is that true or not?

I haven't seen *much* of Thompson. So, true. But Jordan was better than Thompson? Yes? Joe D was the toughest defensive player Jordan ever faced, yes? So it stands to reason that Joe D's defense vs. Thompson's offense is a wash at the least. Now what I don't know is - how good was Thompson's defense?

[Diable]

David Thompson lead a team to a National Title over UCLA. He is one of the greatest college players ever and only cocaine stopped him from being similarly regarded in the NBA. Michael Jordan idolized him and patterned his game after him. When you see Jordan play he is emulating David Thompson before the coke. Dumars isn't even close to him no matter how big of a Pistons homer you are.

[ChrisWoj]

Originally Posted by Diable

David Thompson lead a team to a National Title over UCLA. He is one of the greatest college players ever and only cocaine stopped him from being similarly regarded in the NBA. Michael Jordan idolized him and patterned his game after him. When you see Jordan play he is emulating David Thompson before the coke. Dumars isn't even close to him no matter how big of a Pistons homer you are.

You do realize that the cocaine issues are a part of who he is. You can't say "Len Bias was on Jordan's level, if not for the cocaine you'd all see that." You can't say "Sam Bowie was on Hakeem's level, if not for the injuries you'd all see that." - The cocaine effects the caliber of the player going into the Hall of Fame. David Thompson had 5 Hall of Fame caliber years. Period. He didn't have a 13 year career. Hell, he didn't even have 6-7 HoF caliber years in his career. So yes - Joe Dumars was a more legit Hall of Famer, as a top of the heap defensive guard with multiple titles than a guy that had 5 years.

The cocaine was there. The cocaine cut his career drastically short. His Hall of Fame resume was MEDIOCRE at best, regardless of his ability as a player even with what he did for NC State.


If you want to look purely at Joe D's bonafides try this...
4 time 1st Team all defense first teamer (5 times on the team, all the years straight through his prime)
NBA All Star 6 of 8 years to start the 1990s.
NBA Finals MVP
3 time All NBA (2 2nd teams, 1 3rd team)
And the one year he had absolutely no supporting cast, took it on his shoulders to be a top 10 scorer on top of his defensive capabilities - a very good shooter that could get to the line when he needed to.

You're severely under-rating Joe Dumars to put him behind Thompson. Yeah - I agree that Thompson was every bit as capable as anybody of being one of the NBA's all time greats. Unfortunately he simply was not. Nobody forced him to turn into a cokehead. It was his decision, and is a part of what made him a very much lower level Hall of Famer.

[Da Grinch]

the real truth is that Melo based on his resume is already a sure fire HOF.

he's top 15 all time in scoring avg. every retired player above him is in.

only 1 elgible guy in the top 40 aren't in bernard king who had his prime ravaged with injury.

the active ones who are above him are durant bryant lebron and wade who all look like surefire guys.

based on his college resume , leading his team to a title and being named outstanding player of the final four. is a huge plus
and then you add to that his international record .

its a basketball HOF not an nba HOF , he just has too much going for him.

[MemphisX]

Can we add the fact that he has never played on a lottery team. See how many have that on their record.

[Dre]

I'll never understand why in a game where the object is to score points we accept limited rebounders, one trick defenders, but scorers are always underrated and treated like dirt

[Diable]

I am guessing that those guys would like to have Melo's shoe deal...or any sort of shoe deal.

[Dre]

Nah

[Da Grinch]

Originally Posted by Diable

I guess you never saw Thompson play. Maybe you should ask Michael Jordan about him. Dumars is nowhere near that conversation and it just sounds crazy to argue otherwise. You're wrong about Calvin Johnson and Goodrich too.

The short answer is that Dumars is pretty much the worst player to get into the Hall of Fame in recent memory. Is that true or not?

clyde lovellette inducted in 1988

there is also gus johnson in 2010

[Coatesvillain]

Melo is absolutely a HOFer.