Is it possible we are watching the best to ever do it in Lebron James ?

[Hoodey]

Originally Posted by Diable

Damn I forgot about that other thread. Probably not interested in discussing that though.

Discussing what? I'll discuss anything.

I didn't think Lebron had it in him this year. He turned it on and made it happen. I give him all the credit in the world and said before the series that if he beat Durant, in my eyes, he was better. He did that. I have no problem saying it.

I WAS WRONG.

But that doesn't make the guy better than MJ. It doesn't erase 2007 or 2011. It makes him great in comparison to Durant. Jordan is several penthouses above Durant.

[Dre]

Not arguing anything you said in this thread, in fact I haven't read your posts. Just saying it's been awhile brother

[Hoodey]

Originally Posted by Dre

Not arguing anything you said in this thread, in fact I haven't read your posts. Just saying it's been awhile brother

[E.H. Munro]

Originally Posted by Hoodey

Brilliant. What an awesome counter-argument. I love how you made compelling points to refute my argument. Well done.

No. I mimicked your argument. Whilst mimicking it you realised that it was stupid. Good for you. That shows awareness. Now you simply need to understand that it's the exact same argument that you were making.

Originally Posted by Hoodey

, you're too idiotic (remember, you started with the insulting language mr. admin, before you go righteous on me)

No, I didn't. The "stupids" "idiots" and "morons" started with you. In fact, given the subject at hand the thread was surprisingly insult free until you showed up to "save" Michael by calling everyone that disagreed with you a moron. As I am the easygoingest of the staff, I am not going to assign you an infraction. But do it again and I will.

Originally Posted by Hoodey

One guy has his best stuff right in front of you. The majority of highlights you will see played now from the other guy are from the mid-late 90s when he was past his prime. You are not going to see Jordan at his most athletic if he comes up on ESPN, etc. His best stuff from a talent standpoint came from 87-91. You're better off watching Sportschannel games from a Tuesday night in 1988 if you want to see his raw talent than you are watching NBA Finals games from 96.

This is going to come as a huge shock to you, I guess, but I have vivid memories of Michael dating all the way back to his Tarheel days. In fact, back when Chicago was attempting to trade the third pick in the draft for a center, one of the guys whose name came up was McHale, and I was one of the few Celtic fans enthusiastic about the deal because I figured that Jordan would be the guy left (I assumed that Portland was going to go with Barkley, I was as shocked as everyone else when they drafted the guy that had undergone double bonegraft surgery after several broken legs dating back to high school).

So, unlike you, I actually remember Jordan. And not from watching his greatest hits games on NBA Classics. But from, you know, actually watching him. And I will tell you for an absolute fact that Magic & Bird fans were saying the exact same things about Jordan that you're spouting about James. and they were being every bit as foolish in so doing. Michael can look after his own legacy. He doesn't need your help. He never did.

[E.H. Munro]

Originally Posted by Hoodey

YOU were the one who said that that was my argument. I said MJ had 0 indictable series losses. Series can be anything from first round to Finals.

If that's your argument it's wrong. Because shooting an aFG% of .420 on 28 FGA/g while your team gets plowed like a teenaged porn star makes you an ineffective volume scorer that shot your team out of every game on the road to being swept. Of course, much like James against San Antonio, it's easier to defend guys like that when you don't have to defend any other player on the floor.

[ChrisWoj]

Hoodey - Jordan didn't have "indictable" losses? Man... the fact remains that: HE LOST. End of story. LeBron has been to 3 finals and won 1. Jordan at this age? 0 finals, 0 wins. End. of. story. Jordan had better numbers? Who cares. HE LOST. Hey you know what LeBron only scored 17.8 and had 35.6 in his finals appearances. At this age what did Jordan have in his finals appearances? Oh wait... 0GP (because: HE LOST.)

Anyway, just felt like dropping in to point out that as of this age Jordan had done something over and over and over that LeBron has managed to not do at least once in a postseason. What was that accomplishment again? Oh yeah... HE LOST. Sorry to be so blunt... but really man: "indictable" is you covering your ass with semantics. Jordan couldn't get there with 23 year old Scottie and Horace. LeBron did.. with Boobie... Anderson... and Z. I don't care if they're 33... 33, 23, doesn't matter: Horace and Scottie are a FAR SUPERIOR to that cast. And yet, what did Jordan do again?

[carrrnuttt]

Originally Posted by E.H. Munro

Or, alternatively

Jordan 1 Finals Appearance
James 3 Finals Appearances.

LOL

How about this from the "notables" section of the 1987-88 NBA Season, when MJ was 23-24?:

Michael Jordan becomes the only player in NBA history to win both the scoring title and Defensive Player of the Year honors. He is also the only player in NBA history to combine these awards with the season's Most Valuable Player award.

Or this line from 1988-89 when MJ was 24-25?:

Michael Jordan records ten triple-doubles in eleven games near the end of the season.

Aaand this from the 1989-90 season, when MJ was 25-26:

On March 28, 1990 near the end of the 1989–90 season, the Cleveland Cavaliers faced their new nemesis Michael Jordan. Needing the victory to clinch a playoff berth, Jordan set his career high with 69 points in an overtime win and putting a dent in the Cavaliers' playoff plans.

Not to mention MJ led the league in scoring in all these seasons leading to his first ring and three-peat in 1991.

[PauloCatarino]

Originally Posted by ChrisWoj

Hoodey - Jordan didn't have "indictable" losses? Man... the fact remains that: HE LOST. End of story. LeBron has been to 3 finals and won 1. Jordan at this age? 0 finals, 0 wins. End. of. story. Jordan had better numbers? Who cares. HE LOST. Hey you know what LeBron only scored 17.8 and had 35.6 in his finals appearances. At this age what did Jordan have in his finals appearances? Oh wait... 0GP (because: HE LOST.)

Anyway, just felt like dropping in to point out that as of this age Jordan had done something over and over and over that LeBron has managed to not do at least once in a postseason. What was that accomplishment again? Oh yeah... HE LOST. Sorry to be so blunt... but really man: "indictable" is you covering your ass with semantics. Jordan couldn't get there with 23 year old Scottie and Horace. LeBron did.. with Boobie... Anderson... and Z. I don't care if they're 33... 33, 23, desn't matter: Horace and Scottie are a FAR SUPERIOR to that cast. And yet, what did Jordan do again?

All right, i feel dirty as hell having to step up and defend a little Michael Jordan, but this is just wrong.
Yes, till they won their first championship, the Jordan´s Bulls lost. And lost plenty in the playoffs. But their were facing the Larry Bird's Bulls and the Bad Boys. It's a whole different scenario.

Oh, and btw, can anyone tell me how many times a Jordan-led Chicago Bulls were eliminated in a series theu had HCA (honest question).

[carrrnuttt]

Originally Posted by Hoodey

Lebron better worry about Kobe. If he wins, nobody will care. Kobe is already old. If Lebron plays LA and loses, it will do damage to his legacy big time.

As far as Lebron being the greatest natural talent, I think a lot of people take 93-98 MJ and say "that's MJ."

Go watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1FsD9Y7NfY

In comparison, here's LeBron's 2012 highlights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NjStEmOpLw

SHOW ME, besides where James overpowers people with his speed and strength (and some nifty spin moves), where he shows even an iota of the TRUE b-ball skills MJ shows in his highlights?

[R-Star]

Originally Posted by carrrnuttt

In comparison, here's LeBron's 2012 highlights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NjStEmOpLw

SHOW ME, besides where James overpowers people with his speed and strength (and some nifty spin moves), where he shows even an iota of the TRUE b-ball skills MJ shows in his highlights?

Sorry, but that's pure bullshit.

MJ was a better basketball player than James, but lets not put it like those skills are nowhere close. James is the better athlete, MJ had the better basketball skills. But in both cases, its not far off.

Its not like James goes every play over powering or being quicker than his defender every play. He has a very effective arsenal of moves away from the basket. If he were just using speed and power like you say, he'd be worthless outside of the paint.


MJ is the better player in my eyes, but you don't have to oversell it and underrate Lebron. If anything, it hurts your argument.

[carrrnuttt]

Originally Posted by PauloCatarino

Oh, and btw, can anyone tell me how many times a Jordan-led Chicago Bulls were eliminated in a series theu had HCA (honest question).

Never. In Jordan's career as a Bull, they never lost a series where they held the HCA.

[carrrnuttt]

Originally Posted by R-Star

Sorry, but that's pure bullshit.

MJ was a better basketball player than James, but lets not put it like those skills are nowhere close. James is the better athlete, MJ had the better basketball skills. But in both cases, its not far off.

Its not like James goes every play over powering or being quicker than his defender every play. He has a very effective arsenal of moves away from the basket. If he were just using speed and power like you say, he'd be worthless outside of the paint.


MJ is the better player in my eyes, but you don't have to oversell it and underrate Lebron. If anything, it hurts your argument.

Show me an example then, brah. Anything on YouTube you can link me to? As you can see from his highlights, MJ performed basketball magic almost with regularity. He'd be surrounded by practically the whole opposing team that's collapsed on him and he'd still find a way to find the basket WHILE getting fouled. MJ had a touch and feel for the ball and basket that I still find unmatched to this day.

In the meantime, James does this with one person in front of him on a fastbreak:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhwhPhss-QE

Does Jordan have a collection of his top five worst passes in a clutch situation? No, but James sure does: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYwmjxlVMzQ

So, come on man. You talk a big game. Show me LeBron's mastery that doesn't involve jumping higher or running faster.

[R-Star]

Originally Posted by carrrnuttt

Show me an example then, brah. Anything on YouTube you can link me to? As you can see from his highlights, MJ performed basketball magic almost with regularity. He'd be surrounded by practically the whole opposing team that's collapsed on him and he'd still find a way to find the basket WHILE getting fouled.

In the meantime, James does this with one person in front of him on a fastbreak:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhwhPhss-QE

So, come on man. You talk a big game. Show me LeBron's mastery that doesn't involve jumping higher or running faster.

Lebron only scores on single coverage, and Jordan did it consistently with 5 defenders on him?

So that's your take, and you want me to waste my time finding a video that will change your opinion on the matter?


No thanks. I think you've got your mind made up already.

[Diable]

I guess Lebron is back on track now that all of the Jordan fanboys are back to bash him. Where you guys been? How is the Delorean running?

[Hoodey]

Originally Posted by E.H. Munro

No. I mimicked your argument. Whilst mimicking it you realised that it was stupid. Good for you. That shows awareness. Now you simply need to understand that it's the exact same argument that you were making.



No, I didn't. The "stupids" "idiots" and "morons" started with you. In fact, given the subject at hand the thread was surprisingly insult free until you showed up to "save" Michael by calling everyone that disagreed with you a moron. As I am the easygoingest of the staff, I am not going to assign you an infraction. But do it again and I will.



This is going to come as a huge shock to you, I guess, but I have vivid memories of Michael dating all the way back to his Tarheel days. In fact, back when Chicago was attempting to trade the third pick in the draft for a center, one of the guys whose name came up was McHale, and I was one of the few Celtic fans enthusiastic about the deal because I figured that Jordan would be the guy left (I assumed that Portland was going to go with Barkley, I was as shocked as everyone else when they drafted the guy that had undergone double bonegraft surgery after several broken legs dating back to high school).

So, unlike you, I actually remember Jordan. And not from watching his greatest hits games on NBA Classics. But from, you know, actually watching him. And I will tell you for an absolute fact that Magic & Bird fans were saying the exact same things about Jordan that you're spouting about James. and they were being every bit as foolish in so doing. Michael can look after his own legacy. He doesn't need your help. He never did.

My argument wasn't that you specifically or that one person didn't have vivid memories of Jordan. Overall, those on this board right now, on average do not.

And I don't have memories from watching ESPN classic. I grew up in Chicago, watching every game (if you weren't in Chicago in 1985, how many games did you get?). My first year watching the Bulls was 83-84 as a 7 year old.

What were Bird and Magic fans saying? They were saying what I'm saying? That Jordan lost series in which he was individually indictable for shooting 35.6% and averaging 22.0 PPG? Cause that's my argument. The argument of Bird and Magic fans in say 1989 was ridiculously stupid. It's not my argument.