Is it possible we are watching the best to ever do it in Lebron James ?

[carrrnuttt]

Originally Posted by R-Star

Lebron only scores on single coverage, and Jordan did it consistently with 5 defenders on him?

So that's your take, and you want me to waste my time finding a video that will change your opinion on the matter?


No thanks. I think you've got your mind made up already.

The point is, James is far and away the most physically-gifted basketball athlete EVER. However, that hardly makes him the most skilled. And even with all his gifts, he's managed show an ability to shrink when he was needed the most. Something that no one can EVER say about Jordan.

I find it laughable that the LeBron fan-wankers (usually younger people) in here would even mention the two in the same conversation about greatness.

[carrrnuttt]

How about this? I'll put LeBron in as my number 1b, as soon as he matches this:

Michael Jordan becomes the only player in NBA history to win both the scoring title and Defensive Player of the Year honors. He is also the only player in NBA history to combine these awards with the season's Most Valuable Player award.

[R-Star]

Originally Posted by carrrnuttt

The point is, James is far and away the most physically-gifted basketball athlete EVER. However, that hardly makes him the most skilled. And even with all his gifts, he's managed show an ability to shrink when he was needed the most. Something that no one can EVER say about Jordan.

I find it laughable that the LeBron fan-wankers (usually younger people) in here would even mention the two in the same conversation about greatness.

So Lebron shrunk in last years playoffs?

[E.H. Munro]

Originally Posted by carrrnuttt

LOL

How about this from the "notables" section of the 1987-88 NBA Season, when MJ was 23-24?:

This isn't about Jordan's greatness, this is about Hoodey's insecurity and his need to flip out every time James improves and start shrieking about how James was unable to lead an NBDL team over the NBA's reigning dynasty five years ago. Yeah, we get it, he was unable to lead a team whose second best player was a slow moving brittle center over a historically good NBA team. Hooray.

[Dee-Zy]

Originally Posted by carrrnuttt

The point is, James is far and away the most physically-gifted basketball athlete EVER. However, that hardly makes him the most skilled. And even with all his gifts, he's managed show an ability to shrink when he was needed the most. Something that no one can EVER say about Jordan.

I find it laughable that the LeBron fan-wankers (usually younger people) in here would even mention the two in the same conversation about greatness.

Lebron is not the scorer MJ was. If anything, he is more like Magic than MJ so holding him to the scoring measuring stick is not going to work.

He will not get that and that has nothing to do with him having a shot at being the greatest or not. There is other things that he can do.

[E.H. Munro]

Originally Posted by carrrnuttt

Never. In Jordan's career as a Bull, they never lost a series where they held the HCA.

Probably because the guy that, according to you & Hoodey, simultaneously defended all five positions on the court and never had any teammates couldn't even lead the Bulls to a winning record until Pippen & Grant showed up. That's right sports fans, the 80's Bulls never won as many as 41 games until Pippen showed up. And their playoff record was 1-9. They were a regular juggernaut. So I guess we know who was really responsible for the Bull's success.

Originally Posted by Hoodey

My argument wasn't that you specifically or that one person didn't have vivid memories of Jordan.

Really? Because that wasn't what you said. You repeated, against me, the very same accusation that you've been hurling at your fellow twentysomethings. "YOU DON'T WATCH ENOUGH YOUNG JORDAN GAMES ON NBA CLASSICS TV, YOU CAN'T COMPREHEND THE GREATNESS!!!!!"

Except that I was there. I saw it the first time around. I don't need to watch NBA TV to remember what he did when he was younger.

Originally Posted by Hoodey

And I don't have memories from watching ESPN classic. I grew up in Chicago, watching every game (if you weren't in Chicago in 1985, how many games did you get?). My first year watching the Bulls was 83-84 as a 7 year old.

Yeah. Sure you do.

Originally Posted by Hoodey

What were Bird and Magic fans saying? They were saying what I'm saying? That Jordan lost series in which he was individually indictable for shooting 35.6% and averaging 22.0 PPG? Cause that's my argument. The argument of Bird and Magic fans in say 1989 was ridiculously stupid. It's not my argument.

I'm not sure that there's some substantiative difference between "He shot 36%" and "He shot 41%". Of course there is a substantiative difference between doing it as a 22 year old in the NBA Finals as opposed to a 23 year old in the first round whose team only made the playoffs because pretty much the entire league went to the playoffs in that day and age. But hey, what the heck.

The argument back then was "Anyone can score 30 points if they shot the ball that much and the referees blew the whistle every time someone sneezed loudly near him. Can you imagine how many points Magic or Larry would score if they were selfish scorers that shot the ball every time they touched it? He'll never be as great as they are because he can't lead a team anywhere."

[e-monk]

Originally Posted by Hoodey

No, it's not.

The fuel comes from corporations using their media arms to further the legacy of players who are the "now." Why? Because how do you make more money during Lebron's career if you're one of his endorsers? By making sure that ESPN gives fans a realistic appraisal of Jordan v. James? Or by making sure that people have a greater view of James v. Jordan than reality dictates?

I know emh has already pretty much pummelled you into the ground on this but I just wanted to point out that the OP is not a corporation he's a person asking a question and us respondants are not corporations (as far as I know) we're people with considered and relatively informed opinions (unlike you with your view that Horry was simply a fringe starter who hit a couple big threes) and it's insulting for you to act like we are all under some sort of spell (and you're not!?) cast by the big corporations

so in short: go **** yourself, who said you could come in here and post with adults?

[e-monk]

Originally Posted by Hoodey

He is like Wilt, but not in the way you intended that statement.

and dont make this about Wilt - you are already in over your head

[ChrisWoj]

Originally Posted by PauloCatarino

All right, i feel dirty as hell having to step up and defend a little Michael Jordan, but this is just wrong.
Yes, till they won their first championship, the Jordan´s Bulls lost. And lost plenty in the playoffs. But their were facing the Larry Bird's Bulls and the Bad Boys. It's a whole different scenario.

Oh, and btw, can anyone tell me how many times a Jordan-led Chicago Bulls were eliminated in a series theu had HCA (honest question).

Yeah, I went pretty overboard. I pulled an R-Star/Luke apparently last night.

[E.H. Munro]

Originally Posted by Diable

Damn I forgot about that other thread. Probably not interested in discussing that though.

I just went and dug that thread up to remind myself of the hilarity.

[Game3525]

The only issue that may derail Lebron is mileage.

I know he is 27, but that body has put more mileage the. what KG or Kobe did that age and both of those guys started to wear down at age 30-31.

[Game3525]

The only issue that may derail Lebron is mileage.

I know he is 27, but that body has put more mileage the. what KG or Kobe did that age and both of those guys started to wear down at age 30-31.

[23AJ]

Just check the GOAT players list being voted on in this forum. You can see LBJ has a long long way to go before we can seriously start comparing him to MJ status and accomplishments. In fact , I consider larry Bird a better player than LeBron James. Let alone MJ.

And I'm not going to play fortune teller with what will become of James career. But it's quite premature to start pushing the MJ debate. The only active player that can be debated in my book is Kobe Bryant. Who will have a great opportunity this up coming season to win his sixth NBA Championship.

[rayz789]

Nobody will overpass Jordan. Lebron has improved greatly and is one of the greats today but come on he only has 1 ring folks relax. Ppl talk about lebron won his first ring at 27 to jordan 28 but forgot to mention it took lebron 9 years to win his first ring while it took jordan 6 years rings to win his first ring? And in jordan era before he won first ring, he had to deal with the bad boys pistons (they won their first 2 rings in 89,90). And when jordan had hair he had the bulls team full of scrubs in the bird/magic era.

[e-monk]

that's the thing I dont think anyone in here actually said he had