Wilt at 36

[e-monk]

25-30ppg 15+rpg 5apg 3-5bpg shooting 55-60% - Shaq/Howard hybrid

(and the only real physical difference between players across eras is weight not height and most of that is due to era specific training and dietary regimen not biology - there's like a 1" difference in average heights over the decades)

[JerryWest]

Wilt is the best bigman off all time. Basically Shaq but better at everything.

[Hoodey]

Originally Posted by e-monk

did you see the block in the second video? in that one his 36 year old head was definitely at the rim

and btw Im sorry but you're wrong about the Lakers being favorites to the knicks or celtics in those series let alone gimmes

You've already shot your credibility in the face in the first couple sentences.

The Boston Celtics weren't even picked by the Boston media to get out of the FIRST ROUND. You're WISHING history was the way you want it to be.

against the Knicks Wilt was returning from a knee injury that had him out in all but 12 regular season games - hell we give Mike a pass in 95 but he played in 17 regular season games and unlike Wilt's circumstances those were at all at the end of the season and Mike was perfectly healthy and he didnt even get to the finals that year -

I don't give Mike a PASS. I'll say that it's still very impressive that he won 6 rings and after the last time he lost to Detroit, the only other loss was in a season in which he barely played, but he's still accountable for that loss.

If he had won only two rings, lost in 95 and then lost to another team in the Finals .. a team that was not supposed to exit the first round, then it's a different game.

and while we're at it Baylor was 33 and injured a large portion of the season and wound up missing 30 games and never fully recovered (as in Ever he played in 11 games over the course of the next 2 seasons before retiring)

the Celtics series(also not a 'gimme' series) went to game 7 and was neck and neck down to the wire - Wilt wasnt in the game the last 5 minutes because the coach was an idiot - the coach was subsequently fired

Yeah, and Willis Reed was out of game 5 for a large chunk, and New York CAME BACK with him gone. In game 7 he hit his first two shots and then limped around.

So cut the excuses. Besides, excuses can offer you reasons why someone's loss wasn't so bad, but so many times with Kobe, Magic and Wilt, excuses are offered up as if they actually WON!

You want to argue this as though because you have some reasons, I'm supposed to say, "you know what, you're right, let's take those two championships and award them to Wilt. I mean, you do have some AWESOME excuses." It's laughable.

Excuses for why someone didn't do something will never be the same as them actually doing something.

The man got two rings when he should have easily had four, and that's before you argue the fact that Russell's teammates weren't necessarily better like. People act like it's a given. Guess who played with more players on the NBA 50 at 50 team. Russell or Wilt?

[Hoodey]

Originally Posted by Wilt_The_Stilt

I don't question that Wilt was a freak athlete. But I do question the size and athletic ability of his competition. I think there is more of it these days. Not that he would be shut down but he wouldn't dominate to the same extent.

Obviously his numbers would go down just due to the style of play, but I'm curious what kind of numbers Wilt fans think he would put up these days?

But here's what I don't understand. Say you wanted to take a PF from yesteryear like Pettit. Okay, fine.

Who are the good centers today? What centers out there have proven that they can stop guys with any post ability. Wilt wouldn't score today like Andrew Bynum does? How? Bynum isn't a great athlete. Wilt is the same size and was a much better athlete than Bynum.

I don't get this constant modern athleticism jocking when scientists have said that humans don't evolve over a period of 25, 50 or even 100 years naturally.

I know for a fact that Joakim Noah would have no chance to guard the top centers in 1989. I don't need to plot a direction of athleticism and say "well, everyone knows athletes get better or worse as time goes on, so therefore.." I can just look at the dominant athletes they were and say there's no way. Joakim Noah would guard Shaq? Shaq was not unguardable in 1994. He would be today even without a hook shot the way he was in 94.

[Wilt_The_Stilt]

I don't see how people can deny that players today are more athletic. For whatever reason. It doesn't mean they have the skills to defend a guy like Wilt, but it is obvious that it's harder to score and get rebounds against guys who are bigger, stronger, and faster then the old competition.

[Dee-Zy]

I don't see the big deal about the dunk, especially for a 7 footer but that block was insane.

[Dre]

If Wilt put up his legs like Shaq and did all that extra shit it would be for a 36 year old

[JerryWest]

Wilt would be more fit today too. People forget that back in the day, basketball players had to do side jobs to make money. Then didn't have trainers and nutrionists around them 24/7.

Wilt would be ever better now a days if he had the resources modern players have.

[Geaux Tigers]

From watching old footage of Wilt I dont see a big difference between he and other centers in the league in terms of size. What I see is a complete absence of athleticism among those players as well as an entirely different defensive philosophy. Every single one of those defenders stood flat footed and they only played the ball. Almost no contact at all. All you need 3 or 4 minutes of Youtube to show you that Wilt was a player that was far ahead of his time. I think he would be regarded as a great player in this day and age or any time period. The big however in all of that is that there is no way his numbers would be anything like they are now if he played in todays game. I think Shaq career arc would be a great comparison for Wilt if he stood in for Shaq. Wilt still lands top 10, but with hardly the legend.

[Dre]

Fair and probably true analysis

[Geaux Tigers]

Some of these guys play ahead of their time. It inflates their legend, but doesnt mean they didnt play great basketball. When I watch Wilt I see a ton of Tim Duncan the way he constantly used the backboard from 8+ feet out. That would translate into today's game and he could make a similar living at it.

Also since he was mentioned above I would take Bob Pettit on my team any day, who was another guy ahead of his time.

[GTA Addict]

Keep in mind Wilt played an average of 116 offensive team possessions per game. Today's players who play 37-40 MPG are playing only 70-75 possessions per game. Jordan played 75 possessions per game, LeBron 75, Durant 74, Kobe 70, etc

That is to say, Jordan averaged 30 points per 75 possessions per game for his career. Wilt averaged 30 points per 116 possessions per game. There's a huge pace adjustment to be made for his numbers.

The other problem with trying to gauge his numbers in today's league is that there were drastically different versions of Wilt (or rather, he was used differently by different coaches). These were his numbers per 75 possessions:

1960: 21.6 pts, 15.5 rebs, 1.3 asts
1961: 21.7 pts, 15.4 rebs, 1.1 asts
1962: 28.2 pts, 14.3 rebs, 1.3 asts
1963: 27.3 pts, 14.8 rebs, 2.1 asts
1964: 24.9 pts, 15.1 rebs, 3.4 asts
1965: 22.8 pts, 15.1 rebs, 2.3 asts
1966: 20.8 pts, 15.2 rebs, 3.3 asts
1967: 15.7 pts, 15.7 rebs, 5.1 asts
1968: 15.1 pts, 14.8 rebs, 5.3 asts
1969: 14.5 pts, 14.9 rebs, 3.2 asts
1970: 20.5 pts, 13.8 rebs, 3.1 asts
1971: 14.8 pts, 13.1 rebs, 3.1 asts
1972: 10.9 pts, 14.1 rebs, 3.0 asts
1973: 10.0 pts, 14.1 rebs, 3.4 asts

I think the Shaq/Howard hybrid description is fair. Less scoring volume and efficiency compared to Shaq but more volume than Howard, probably the best rebounder in the league, and arguably the best defender in the league. 24-25 points, 14-15 boards, 3+ assists, 3-4 blocks during his peak

[Ron]

Bottom line a lot of you never saw him play.

For those of you who never saw him play AND are saying he couldn't stand up to modern players, you simply don't know what you are talking about.

I saw him play, both on TV and in person. The guy was a monster. Lean and athletic coming out of college, no one could even dream of keeping up with him. As he bulked out and filled a frame without the fat you see on the Shaqs, Barkleys, etc. of the world, he was even more intimidating.

No one could measure of this guy, ever.

Wilt was the best ever.

[XxIrvingxX]

Originally Posted by Hoodey

You've already shot your credibility in the face in the first couple sentences.

The Boston Celtics weren't even picked by the Boston media to get out of the FIRST ROUND. You're WISHING history was the way you want it to be.

For once Hoodey is right. The Lakers were heavily favored to win against the Celtics and many say this was one of the biggest upsets in NBA history, I'm not sure what series you were thinking of E Monk.

And as for the vidoes, they are impressive, especially the block (even though it was goal tending, doesn't apply here though so w/e). I'll admit, I'm one of the people who are very hard on Wilt and I guess I should give him a lot more credit then he deserves. He's definitely a incredible athlete, and after reading up on him more and more I've begun to not only respect his game more but understand why he was really so great. He was definitely ahead of his time, and he was certainly a gifted player.

[Hoodey]

Originally Posted by Ron

Bottom line a lot of you never saw him play.

For those of you who never saw him play AND are saying he couldn't stand up to modern players, you simply don't know what you are talking about.

I saw him play, both on TV and in person. The guy was a monster. Lean and athletic coming out of college, no one could even dream of keeping up with him. As he bulked out and filled a frame without the fat you see on the Shaqs, Barkleys, etc. of the world, he was even more intimidating.

No one could measure of this guy, ever.

Wilt was the best ever.

No he wasn't. He was tied with others as the second best talent ever. The difference between any of the blindingly talented and the others is less than splitting a hair talent wise.

Wilt
Kareem
Jordan
Robinsonsd
Lebron

These are guys who were not only great athletes for their size jumping, but they were great combos of height, weight and explosiveness and also extremely quick. They were a cut above everyone else athletically, and athletically the difference is less than minute.

Then you start talking about things like wizardry with the ball, the will to have others be involved, the will to dig a little deeper than the next guy, and the rare ability to be psychotic enough to have almost a murderers desire to rip opposing hearts out - these are the things that can do a couple things.

First, the separate these guys from each other. Second, you can have a guy who is that second tier of all time athletic talent, like a Kobe or Duncan, and put them above one of these guys.

I'd take Kobe over Wilt. Kobe, like Jordan, is the kind of competitive prick who is so competitive you can't even be in the same room with the guy, but he and Wilt, like Jordan and Wilt have one key difference. To prove they are the best, they would be willing to run that much closer to the center of a FIRE than you, even if it meant they themselves would die. In that regard, you'd have guys like this be elite:

Jordan
Bryant
Bird
Russell

Now, I've only seen one guy who doesn't really need to be in this group to still be one of the 5-8 best at all. I've seen one guy who was SO blindingly talented, he could literally sit on a couch, yawn, smoke some weed and eat chicken wings all day, and lead teams to rings.

My most talented ever - Shaquille O'neal

This guy was so talented. Nobody ever has been or will ever be the attacking machine he was for about 3-4 years. And anyone can front. I'm not a Laker, Magic, Miami or Cav fan or Boston or whatever secret scandinavian team he's putting work in with now.

This guy, for 3-4 years, literally could score with two guys grabbing his back and trying a WWE takedown. And he could still score with a dunk in those situations sometimes. Sounds like hyperbole. It wasn't. And if you brought the defender from the wrong place - BOOM he'd kick to a wide open Fisher, Fox or Horry for a three.

If he had been able to be the player he was from 00-02 instead from 97 to say 05, he could be the best ever in his sleep. He did have the best three years ever.