1982 Finals. Who deserved the FMVP?

[oolalaa]

Ah, and don't forget about 1988. Worthy? Really??

Shaking my ****ing head.

[Jamel Irief]

Originally Posted by oolalaa

Wow. A stirling answer. Why don't you enlighten me oh great one! Illuminate this thread! Show me the error of my ways!


Not expecting much, but give it your best shot....

You asked him a yes or no question, he answered it. Calm down.

[oolalaa]

Originally Posted by Jamel Irief

You asked him a yes or no question, he answered it. Calm down.

And, of course, you have to chime in.

I have 'conversed' with him before. His answers often have an aloof, holier-than-thou tone to them. They're also very short. His "yup" was just one more example. Why would someone come into a thread like this if they have nothing to offer?

[XxIrvingxX]

Originally Posted by oolalaa

The '69 Finals wasn't the only time a member of the losing team should have won. What about 1970? Reed was WORTHLESS for the last 3 games of that series. West probably deserved it, AGAIN. What about 1974? Was Cowens better than Kareem?? I don't care about one quarter of one game. Kareem abused Cowens the whole series. What about 2004? Shaq averaged a 26/11 on 63% against one of the best defensive players and teams of all time.

Look, voters for subjective awards like FMVP can be ****ing morons. I DO NOT CARE WHAT THE RECORD BOOK SAYS. '70, '74, '76, '77 (Debatable), '80, '88 (How could I forget), '04 and '07 are all examples of that.

Yes, it was. It was definitely the only time someone who was on the losing team should've won. It isn't even arguable.

Were any of those people that you named play on the winning team? No they weren't. There's a reason why none of those people won the award, because they DIDN'T DESERVE IT. Their team didn't win. It's as simple as that. West was a rare occasion because not only was he flat out dominant, but there wasn't anyone on the Celtics team that really stood out.

You think that just because someone played better than the other person on the other team, that automatically means they should be finals MVP? No, it doesn't work like that. In reality, it goes to the person who led their team to victory, and in the years you just showed me where you think someone didn't deserve to win finals MVP, that's exactly what the finals MVP did.

And what?? You're trying to argue that James Worthy didn't deserve finals MVP?! Did you even see what he did to the Pistons?! He averaged 22 points, 7 rebounds, and 4 assists per game, he had 28 points and 9 rebounds in a crucial game 6 which the Lakers barely won, and then he got a triple double in game 7, another game the Lakers barely won, and you're seriously trying to argue that James Worthy didn't deserve finals MVP?! You clearly have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

Edit: Did you seriously just say that 07 was another example? Please explain to me how the hell Tony Parker didn't deserve Finals MVP. Anyone who watched that series knows how big of an impact Tony Parker made out there.

[XxIrvingxX]

Originally Posted by oolalaa

And, of course, you have to chime in.

I have 'conversed' with him before. His answers often have an aloof, holier-than-thou tone to them. They're also very short. His "yup" was just one more example. Why would someone come into a thread like this if they have nothing to offer?

What do you mean nothing to offer?? He answered your question, what more do you want?

"Yes, I did" would that have been more suitable?

[oolalaa]

Originally Posted by XxIrvingxX

Yes, it was. It was definitely the only time someone who was on the losing team should've won. It isn't even arguable.

Were any of those people that you named play on the winning team? No they weren't. There's a reason why none of those people won the award, because they DIDN'T DESERVE IT. Their team didn't win. It's as simple as that. West was a rare occasion because not only was he flat out dominant, but there wasn't anyone on the Celtics team that really stood out.

You think that just because someone played better than the other person on the other team, that automatically means they should be finals MVP? No, it doesn't work like that. In reality, it goes to the person who led their team to victory, and in the years you just showed me where you think someone didn't deserve to win finals MVP, that's exactly what the finals MVP did.

And what?? You're trying to argue that James Worthy didn't deserve finals MVP?! Did you even see what he did to the Pistons?! He averaged 22 points, 7 rebounds, and 4 assists per game, he had 28 points and 9 rebounds in a crucial game 6 which the Lakers barely won, and then he got a triple double in game 7, another game the Lakers barely won, and you're seriously trying to argue that James Worthy didn't deserve finals MVP?! You clearly have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

Edit: Did you seriously just say that 07 was another example? Please explain to me how the hell Tony Parker didn't deserve Finals MVP. Anyone who watched that series knows how big of an impact Tony Parker made out there.

Holy moly.

Yes, it was. It was definitely the only time someone who was on the losing team should've won. It isn't even arguable.

Were any of those people that you named play on the winning team? No they weren't. There's a reason why none of those people won the award, because they DIDN'T DESERVE IT. Their team didn't win. It's as simple as that.

5 baseless claims in 2 paragraphs. Well done.

West was a rare occasion because not only was he flat out dominant, but there wasn't anyone on the Celtics team that really stood out.

Which one of Kareem's teammates stood out in the '74 Finals?? Which one of Shaq's teammates stood out in the '04 Finals??

In reality, it goes to the person who led their team to victory, and in the years you just showed me where you think someone didn't deserve to win finals MVP, that's exactly what the finals MVP did.

One game does not define a whole series, no matter how important that game was.

And what?? You're trying to argue that James Worthy didn't deserve finals MVP?! Did you even see what he did to the Pistons?! He averaged 22 points, 7 rebounds, and 4 assists per game, he had 28 points and 9 rebounds in a crucial game 6 which the Lakers barely won, and then he got a triple double in game 7, another game the Lakers barely won, and you're seriously trying to argue that James Worthy didn't deserve finals MVP?! You clearly have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

Magic clearly outplayed Worthy in games 1, 3, 4 & 5, and games 2 and 6 are HIGHLY debatable. He battled the flu to put up a 23/11 in game 2 and had 19 assists in the must-win game 6.

Here we have the greatest point guard of all time at the peak of his powers, running one of the best teams of all time, with his playmaking and his unparalleled leadership, getting tag-teamed by Dumars and Rodman all series long, and still managing to put up a 21/6/13 on 55%.

Yes, Magic, the LEADER of the Lakers deserved the FMVP.

Edit: Did you seriously just say that 07 was another example? Please explain to me how the hell Tony Parker didn't deserve Finals MVP. Anyone who watched that series knows how big of an impact Tony Parker made out there.

The Cavaliers whole, entire defensive strategy was centered around stopping Tim Duncan. That was all they cared about. He was doubled incessentley. Tony Parker was not. Tony Parker was allowed to run amok against Snow and Boobie.

Duncan was their defensive anchor, too. He was the reason Lebron settled for waaaay too many perimiter shots. He SHUT DOWN the paint. And let's not forget about passing/facilitating. Duncan was spreading the floor. He averaged more assists than Parker, who is a ****ing point guard!!!! In fact, Duncan averaged more assists than anyone not named Lebron.

And, lastly, Duncan was the undeniable, unquestioned leader of that team. His entire team loved and respected him. They followed his lead. He motivated those around him. His 'intangibles' are impossible to quantify, but they CERTAINLY weren't negligible.

[oolalaa]

Originally Posted by XxIrvingxX

What do you mean nothing to offer?? He answered your question, what more do you want?

"Yes, I did" would that have been more suitable?

And another chimer.

So far, he has made 2 comments, neither of which have any substance. At least others, such as you, have given some reasons and attempted to back them up. I have little patience, and his aloof attitude rubs me the wrong way.

[23AJ]

Originally Posted by oolalaa

I love Jerry West. I don't need to be told how good he was in that series, but it's pointless and irrelevant to compare the '69 and '82 Finals. They were COMPLETELY different.

Yet in this very thread you compared the 82 Finals to the 2012 Finals. You clearly have an agenda. And everyone knows what it is.

Don't ever discredit Magic Johnson again, just because LeBron James has stunk it up in numerous Finals appearances. (Mavs/Spurs).

[oolalaa]

Originally Posted by 23AJ

Yet in this very thread you compared the 82 Finals to the 2012 Finals. You clearly have an agenda. And everyone knows what it is.

Don't ever discredit Magic Johnson again, just because LeBron James has stunk it up in numerous Finals appearances. (Mavs/Spurs).

what a clown. I have no agenda. I was comparing the PACE difference between 1982 and 2012. I could have picked the '04 Finals (The slowest Finals in history) and made Magic look even worse, lets keep the personal attacks out of this.

[23AJ]

Originally Posted by oolalaa

what a clown. I have no agenda. I was comparing the PACE difference between 1982 and 2012. I could have picked the '04 Finals (The slowest Finals in history) and made Magic look even worse, you dumbass.

You're insults are quite amusing. You're a smug poster, with very little objectivity. When you grow into a well balanced mature adult. Quote me again, and will talk. Until then, look in the mirror, what I'm pointing out is clearly obvious, not only to me, but every other contributing basketball boards member on this website. Some will play your game, I refuse to. Not worth the time and energy to bottle up that kind of negativity over basketball opinions.

And. I saw the Finals, Magic deserved the Finals MVP.

End thread/

[oolalaa]

Originally Posted by 23AJ

You're insults are quite amusing. You're a smug poster, with very little objectivity. When you grow into a well balanced mature adult. Quote me again, and will talk. Until then, look in the mirror, what I'm pointing out is clearly obvious, not only to me, but every other contributing basketball boards member on this website. Some will play your game, I refuse to. Not worth the time and energy to bottle up that kind of negativity over basketball opinions.

And. I saw the Finals, Magic deserved the Finals MVP.

End thread/

You claiming I have an agenda is far more insulting than me calling you a 'clown' and a 'dumbass' in retaliation. All I've done in this thread is claim that Toney has a case for FMVP, and I laid it out in detail. I can perfectly well understand Magic winning it. But, of course, you don't properly read anything I've written and then make a bald faced assumption.

I am likely older than you, too, so please cut the 'You're immature, I'm gunna take the high ground' crap. I wanted to start a discussion with people who have watched the series. Yet, all I get thrown at me is 'Magic's team won' and STATS, and sometimes even less....

And. I saw the Finals, Magic deserved the Finals MVP.

[XxIrvingxX]

Originally Posted by oolalaa

Holy moly.



5 baseless claims in 2 paragraphs. Well done.

I know right, now all I have to do is make an entire post based off of baseless claims and I'll be on your level.

Originally Posted by oolalaa

Which one of Kareem's teammates stood out in the '74 Finals?? Which one of Shaq's teammates stood out in the '04 Finals??

No one did. Here's a question though. Did either of those guys win the finals that year? No, they didn't. Why are you having such a difficult time understanding this?

Originally Posted by oolalaa

One game does not define a whole series, no matter how important that game was.

Where did I ever state that it did? And that's a horribly stupid claim and if you have any amount of brain cells within you then you should know that. The people who win the NBA finals MVP award don't just have one good game. Don't make idiotic claims like that, it's not a good way to make your case and you just end up killing your own argument.

Originally Posted by oolalaa

Magic clearly outplayed Worthy in games 1, 3, 4 & 5, and games 2 and 6 are HIGHLY debatable. He battled the flu to put up a 23/11 in game 2 and had 19 assists in the must-win game 6.

Johnson definitely didn't outplay him in game 3, and even in the games he did outplay him in, it wasn't by much. In the games that Worthy outplayed Johnson though, he not only outplayed him but he led the team to victory (apart from game 3 of course).

Originally Posted by oolalaa

Here we have the greatest point guard of all time at the peak of his powers, running one of the best teams of all time, with his playmaking and his unparalleled leadership, getting tag-teamed by Dumars and Rodman all series long, and still managing to put up a 21/6/13 on 55%.

Yes, Magic, the LEADER of the Lakers deserved the FMVP.

'
...you are aware that stats aren't the only thing that factor into someone winning the finals MVP right? Are you sure you actually watched the games? Because it sure as hell doesn't sound like it.

Originally Posted by oolalaa

The Cavaliers whole, entire defensive strategy was centered around stopping Tim Duncan. That was all they cared about. He was doubled incessentley. Tony Parker was not. Tony Parker was allowed to run amok against Snow and Boobie.

Duncan was their defensive anchor, too. He was the reason Lebron settled for waaaay too many perimiter shots. He SHUT DOWN the paint. And let's not forget about passing/facilitating. Duncan was spreading the floor. He averaged more assists than Parker, who is a ****ing point guard!!!! In fact, Duncan averaged more assists than anyone not named Lebron.

And, lastly, Duncan was the undeniable, unquestioned leader of that team. His entire team loved and respected him. They followed his lead. He motivated those around him. His 'intangibles' are impossible to quantify, but they CERTAINLY weren't negligible.

Congrats, you just made a lengthy statement about one subject and managed to somehow help prove my point. Parker clearly played better than Duncan did in that series. It doesn't matter how much the Cavs focused on Duncan, fact is Parker played better and he did a lot more damage against the Cavs than Tim Duncan did. You aren't a baby. You should be able to figure out these kinds of things yourself.

Yes Duncan got more assists than Parker, but that isn't something new, Duncan's always been good at getting assists, and getting assists isn't Parker's strength. But he used what he was good in to dismantle the Cavs offensively. Duncan did not. I don't even think I need to go over how many times the Cavs tried to start a run and then Parker would just end up killing it by scoring another basket (except for that huge 4th quarter run by the Cavs in game 2).

Looks like I was right after all. You definitely didn't watch any of the games. It sounds like you're literally basing this all off of stats, not off of how the game was actually played. There's a reason why Worthy won finals MVP over Johnson and there's a reason Johnson won finals MVP over Toney (who didn't deserve it). Go and watch the games, and while you're at it, get a ****ing clue in regards as to why a person wins finals MVP and why another person on the same team or opposite team doesn't. It sounds like you still haven't learned that part yet either.

[oolalaa]

at these clown responses.

Originally Posted by XxIrvingxX

No one did. Here's a question though. Did either of those guys win the finals that year? No, they didn't. Why are you having such a difficult time understanding this?

1. It's not an uncommon occurance for the best player in a series to be on the losing team. You are mentally challenged if you can't acknowledge that.

2. Kareem dragged a less talented, much more banged up squad to a 7th game against the team that won 68 games in the regular season in the '74 Finals!!!!

3. Shaq's ENTIRE team literally vomited all over themselves in every single game. The Pistons won that series because they had the best defense in NBA history. No one stood out for them (Unless you're a Billups stan. Do they exist?)

Where did I ever state that it did?

Nowhere, but where did I state that you stated it did? You're not very good at semantics.

And that's a horribly stupid claim and if you have any amount of brain cells within you then you should know that. The people who win the NBA finals MVP award don't just have one good game.

I NEVER claimed that, so why act like I did? READ WHAT I WRITE MORE CAREFULLY.

Johnson definitely didn't outplay him in game 3, and even in the games he did outplay him in, it wasn't by much. In the games that Worthy outplayed Johnson though, he not only outplayed him but he led the team to victory (apart from game 3 of course).

LMFAO. Game 1 is UNDENIABLE, game 4 is UNDENIABLE and game 5 is UNDENIABLE. Worthy was barely even the FIFTH best player on the floor in each of those games. The ONLY game in which Worth clearly outplayed Magic was game 7.

Are you sure you actually watched the games? Because it sure as hell doesn't sound like it.

It's not FRESH in my mind. It's been a couple of years since I went over it, but I do know that 'Big Game James' being Worthy of FMVP never once entered my mind. Magic RAN THE SHOW. Worthy was merely the best player he gave the ball to. Saying that Worthy deseved FMVP is almost exactly the same as saying that Worthy was a better/more impactful player than Magic, and that the '88 Lakers was Worthy's team. Only a clown would believe that.

And I'm almost certain YOU havn't watched the series. Only an ignorant person can claim that "in the games Magic did outplay him in, it wasn't by much."

Congrats, you just made a lengthy statement about one subject and managed to somehow help prove my point. Parker clearly played better than Duncan did in that series. It doesn't matter how much the Cavs focused on Duncan,

Keep the personal attacks out of this. Not worth reading the rest.

[XxIrvingxX]

[QUOTE=oolalaa;6946231] at these clown responses.

Originally Posted by oolalaa

1. It's not an uncommon occurance for the best player in a series to be on the losing team. You are mentally challenged if you can't acknowledge that.

I wasn't arguing that. I'm saying that they weren't on the winning team. I seriously don't understand why you aren't getting this. It's really simple knowledge and yet you're acting like it's a engineering test or something.

Originally Posted by oolalaa

3. Shaq's ENTIRE team literally vomited all over themselves in every single game. The Pistons won that series because they had the best defense in NBA history. No one stood out for them (Unless you're a Billups stan. Do they exist?)

So Billups averaging 21 points per game and 5 assists per game isn't standing out? Also, Shaq was horrible in games 3 and 5. Shaq definitely didn't deserve finals MVP.

Originally Posted by oolalaa

No where, but where did I state that you stated it did? You're not very good at semantics.

If you weren't claiming that I stated that then why the hell did you bring it up? Do you just like throwing in random statements that have nothing to do with what I'm talking about? If so, I suggest you stop doing that. It won't get you very far.

Originally Posted by oolalaa

I NEVER claimed that, so why act like I did? READ WHAT I WRITE MORE CAREFULLY.

Again, don't make statements that have nothing to do with what we're talking about.

Originally Posted by oolalaa

LMFAO. Game 1 is UNDENIABLE, game 4 is UNDENIABLE and game 5 is UNDENIABLE. Worthy was barely even the FIFTH best player on the floor in each of those games. The ONLY game in which Worth clearly outplayed Magic was game 7.

The game 5 where Johnson was 4 for 15 from the field, had only one more point than Worthy and had 19 more minutes of playing time than him? You're joking right? If we were to cut down Johnson's minutes to the amount Worthy played in that game, it wouldn't even be arguable, Worthy would've outplayed him. Don't use games where one person has a shit load more playing time than the other, you aren't really proving anything with that statement. Hell in game 4 Johnson also got a noticeably larger amount of playing time than Worthy did. Granted it isn't as big, but it's enough to make a difference.

Now in the games where Worthy and Magic do have around the same playing time, the only clear cut game where Magic outplays Worthy is game 1, but even then Johnson had six minutes of more playing time but it wouldn't have made a difference. Now lets talk about the other games shall we? Game 2, Johnson had 23 points, 11 assists and 7 rebounds. Worthy had 26 points, 10 rebounds and 6 assists. The high assists column for Worthy gives him this one. Johnson had the flu in game 3, so I won't count that one. Game 6, Worthy had 28 points, 9 rebounds and 4 assists. Johnson only had 22 points on 40% shooting but mostly made up for that with 19 assists. Those who watched that game know that Worthy was the reason for their win.

Now there's the game 7. Many people say this was one of the greatest game 7 performances ever in Finals history. No game that Johnson had at all in this entire series came even close to the game Worthy had in game 7. This game was the reason why Worthy won the finals MVP. Before this it was close with Johnson having the slight edge. But this game just made it clear who the deserving finals MVP was. Worthy was the one who led the Lakers to victory, not Johnson.

Originally Posted by oolalaa

It's not FRESH in my mind. It's been a couple of years since I went over it, but I do know that 'Big Game James' being Worthy of FMVP never once entered my mind. Magic RAN THE SHOW. Worthy was merely the best player he gave the ball to. Saying that Worthy deseved FMVP is almost exactly the same as saying that Worthy was a better/more impactful player than Magic, and that the '88 Lakers was Worthy's team. Only a clown would believe that.

Oscar Robertson ran the show for Milwaukee when he was the PG on a team that had a young Kareem on it. But I guess going by your logic, Oscar was the real finals MVP, not Kareem, even though Kareem clearly outplayed Robertson. And hey just for the hell of it, while we're at it, lets go ahead and take away the finals MVP award away from Paul Pierce because Rondo was the one running the show in the 2008 finals, doesn't matter if Pierce outplayed him.

Originally Posted by oolalaa

And I'm almost certain you havn't watched it recently, either, if at all.

Oh trust me I did. Besides, unlike you I don't need to lie about knowing something to prove a point.

Originally Posted by oolalaa

What a retard. Not worth reading the rest.

Oh hey he's resorting to insults. And he can't even muster the decency to read the rest, so let me see if I have this right. You have the brain, willingness, and the maturity of a 5 year old, hurraayyy we have ourselves a special one here folks. We should definitely take him more seriously now.

[Jamel Irief]

Originally Posted by oolalaa

. I have little patience,

I didn't notice