Brace yourselves people

[e-monk]

Originally Posted by Dre

As far as the whole "but I think he's a jerk" crap...take that to EBB in the first place.

???

anyway sorry about the little hitler bit but you do come off as a little controlling dont you think?

[R-Star]

Back to the subject, can we really expect to see improvement on Bron's end?

He offensively is already a top 5 player in the league, and you could argue for near the top of that list.
Defensively he's one of the best at his position, so its not like he has much room for improvement there.

And this year the Heat are a more complete team with Ray and Shard there to help out with secondary offense, so its not like Bron will be a taking a ton more shots.

I think he'll play the same as he played last year, but to me if he strings together 3 or so years at that level and some more championships, what more can you really ask for?

[Dre]

He still hasn't mastered the post game like he's capable of and he could probably still become a better shooter. Those are the main two things for me

[R-Star]

Originally Posted by Dre

He still hasn't mastered the post game like he's capable of and he could probably still become a better shooter. Those are the main two things for me

I think the post game will come as a necessity when he starts to slow down with age.

[XxIrvingxX]

Originally Posted by R-Star

I think he'll play the same as he played last year, but to me if he strings together 3 or so years at that level and some more championships, what more can you really ask for?

Average a triple double please?

[XxIrvingxX]

Originally Posted by PauloCatarino

Yeah. God forbid passing judgement on someone like Michael Vick's torturing of animals... I've never met him!!!!!

5 stars my friend. Absolutely brilliant.

[ChrisWoj]

Originally Posted by R-Star

Back to the subject, can we really expect to see improvement on Bron's end?

He offensively is already a top 5 player in the league, and you could argue for near the top of that list.
Defensively he's one of the best at his position, so its not like he has much room for improvement there.

And this year the Heat are a more complete team with Ray and Shard there to help out with secondary offense, so its not like Bron will be a taking a ton more shots.

I think he'll play the same as he played last year, but to me if he strings together 3 or so years at that level and some more championships, what more can you really ask for?

Can you really say his possible improvement is limited merely because of where he stands among other NBA players? He could be the best scorer in the league as well as the best defender - it would be more of an indictment against other talent than a statement that he couldn't improve any more. He's definitely capable of improvement in multiple areas - to move himself even further ahead of the pack.

[R-Star]

Originally Posted by ChrisWoj

Can you really say his possible improvement is limited merely because of where he stands among other NBA players? He could be the best scorer in the league as well as the best defender - it would be more of an indictment against other talent than a statement that he couldn't improve any more. He's definitely capable of improvement in multiple areas - to move himself even further ahead of the pack.

I don't see it. He already shoots at a good clip and has good percentages. Is he going to take a ton more shots? No. Is he all of the sudden going to be a 55% from the field? No.

Where he's at now offensively is either his peak, or really damn close. Same goes on the defensive end. Its not like there's multiple plays he's getting burnt out there. So from an x's and o's standpoint I don't see his defense improving. What other players would do to improve in that area is work on becoming stronger or faster. Is Lebron going to be stronger or faster next year? No.


What I'm trying to say to people is I'm fairly certain this is prime Lebron James. I'm not sure what's wrong with that and why people think players need to improve year in and year out. He's the best basketball player on the planet right now. Enjoy it.

[Jace]

The doc can't even get along on the Heat board. Not sure why he hasn't left these forums.

Originally Posted by R-Star

Back to the subject, can we really expect to see improvement on Bron's end?

He offensively is already a top 5 player in the league, and you could argue for near the top of that list.
Defensively he's one of the best at his position, so its not like he has much room for improvement there.

And this year the Heat are a more complete team with Ray and Shard there to help out with secondary offense, so its not like Bron will be a taking a ton more shots.

I think he'll play the same as he played last year, but to me if he strings together 3 or so years at that level and some more championships, what more can you really ask for?

His FG% has been steadily rising, and with more shooters and Bosh taking a bigger role this year, his assists should go up. Playing in the post more, along with likely raising his %, may also elevate his rebound average. I also wouldn't be surprised if he hits his first game-winner in Miami this season, which would further muzzle the "fear-of-the-moment" critics.

His jumpshot also has plenty of room to improve. That's what I found scary about him last year. He started out playing in the post, though mostly turn-around J's, then went away from it mid-season, only to return to it in the playoffs with deeper touches leading to hook shots and layups. He still seemed raw doing so, which leads me to believe he should be better and even more efficient there.

He'll never average a triple-double. Teams don't play fast enough anymore.


Sorry guys, just a couple things here I couldn't leave alone:

Originally Posted by e-monk

and when I look at Lebron I can see both a 'once in a generation' talent and an immature self centered narcissist - the two are not mutually exclusive; if that is too complicated for you Im not at all concerned as Im not going to spend too much time dwelling on your limitations as a person

"Self-centered narcissist." You realize you're watching the best in the world compete at the highest level? They're all ego-maniacs. Yes, even Rose and Durant. Does, or has, LeBron present(ed) himself as more egotistical than most? Sure, but to center your critique on him on his arrogance seems reach-y. I know this has already been discussed up and down, but it just seems petty to bring up the league's best player being arrogant in a discussion of his talent and upcoming season.

Throughout this thread you've alluded to off-the-court antics and decisions that you're making out to be completely horrible and unforgivable. Running amok the Cavs organization? Not good. Yelling at a chef during the '06 Worlds that his "fries are cold?" Not classy. 'The Decision?' Misguided. They just seem like a pretty minor deal for a guy no older than 25 at the time of these major transgressions, compared to the wife-beating, drunk-driving, coach-killing, etc. you see around this league and others. I just think its extremely nit-picky to bring up that kind of ancillary stuff when discussing his game, at least when the worst of it is so benign.

Sorry to bring this conversation back in this direction, and clearly I'm a Heat fan so there's a bias, but the guy grew up never going to school because his mom was always out on drug binges. Its shocking he's as well-behaved as he is. I admit my impression of him was changed as I saw him in interviews more when he came to Miami (perhaps augmented by his maturing and becoming more wary of the way he comes across), but it would never have crossed my mind to bring up his level of ego in this kind of topic while, or if, he was still in Cleveland. I don't think you were being asked to appreciate his character.

Not saying you can't have or share that opinion, I just don't see how its at all in line with the discussion, especially when there's nothing egregious at all about the factors that make him a "tool" to you.

Originally Posted by XxIrvingxX

It was part of the reason as to why so many people here in Cleveland thought of him as a role model (despite the fact that during his last season with the Cavs, he had two kids already with his girlfriend that he still didn't even marry yet, I still can't believe people managed to somehow look past that).

Oh my god. Do people really think like this? Xx, you've been mostly good in this thread, but this is a horrible way of looking at life. This specific example aside, the notion that people need to be married to start families morally is completely absurd and archaic. If this is religion-based, I'll understand and leave it alone (as much as I may disagree with you measuring someone's character based on your religious beliefs). But if this is a general critique on societal morality, wow.

[Jace]

Originally Posted by R-Star

I don't see it. He already shoots at a good clip and has good percentages. Is he going to take a ton more shots? No. Is he all of the sudden going to be a 55% from the field? No.

Why not? Jordan did it, before he even developed a real post game if I'm correct. LeBron has a better physical makeup for high-percentage scoring. He's also picking up post play earlier than Jordan, and I don't remember MJ playing much in the deep post like LeBron showed flashes of last year.

Why would shooting more increase his percentages? Shooting less could, which he might this season.

[R-Star]

Originally Posted by Jace

Why not? Jordan did it, before he even developed a real post game if I'm correct. LeBron has a better physical makeup for high-percentage scoring. He's also picking up post play earlier than Jordan, and I don't remember MJ playing much in the deep post like LeBron showed flashes of last year.

Why would shooting more increase his percentages? Shooting less could, which he might this season.

The shooting more was to say he isn't going to take more shots, so that avenue of raising his ppg is obviously not an option.

As far as shooting 55% a game? Last year was by far his best year shooting wise. To say "Well MJ did it." isn't really defensible. How many small forwards shoot 55%? Those are numbers a post only big man would be happy with, but for a SF its unheard of.


Could he do it? Sure. Doubting Lebron James is a risky venture. But do I see it happening? No. Not unless they move him to the 4 for long stretches.

[XxIrvingxX]

Originally Posted by Jace

Oh my god. Do people really think like this? Xx, you've been mostly good in this thread, but this is a horrible way of looking at life. This specific example aside, the notion that people need to be married to start families morally is completely absurd and archaic. If this is religion-based, I'll understand and leave it alone (as much as I may disagree with you measuring someone's character based on your religious beliefs). But if this is a general critique on societal morality, wow.

Yes, it is in fact a religious thing...well I think. I grew up in an area and around a family where stuff like this wasn't very acceptable, and also grew up believing in no sex until marriage. I've never really brought much thought into why we should think that way honestly.

[R-Star]

Originally Posted by XxIrvingxX

Yes, it is in fact a religious thing...well I think. I grew up in an area and around a family where stuff like this wasn't very acceptable, and also grew up believing in no sex until marriage. I've never really brought much thought into why we should think that way honestly.

Nothing wrong with that view. Anyone who criticizes you for it while subsequently complaining about your views on children out of wedlock his a hypocrite.

[Jace]

Possibly brainfartting right now, are you saying its hypocritical to not have a problem with sex before marriage or children out of wedlock?

I could be having a comprehension lapse, but that's how its coming across. If I'm reading that correctly, gonna need an explanation. No need for flames here, just asking.

And just to note, I would never criticize anyone for benign beliefs like these. Just intrigued. But hypothetically, R-Star, are you saying if someone were to say "I disagree with your view that folks shouldn't fornicate before marriage" they would then be hypocritical to oppose one's view that its not right to have children out of wedlock? I don't understand the hypocrisy, but I guess I'm missing something.

Originally Posted by R-Star

The shooting more was to say he isn't going to take more shots, so that avenue of raising his ppg is obviously not an option.

As far as shooting 55% a game? Last year was by far his best year shooting wise. To say "Well MJ did it." isn't really defensible. How many small forwards shoot 55%? Those are numbers a post only big man would be happy with, but for a SF its unheard of.


Could he do it? Sure. Doubting Lebron James is a risky venture. But do I see it happening? No. Not unless they move him to the 4 for long stretches.

I suppose I'm basing it on his improvement and increasing comfort in Miami. Pardon me if my argument came across as simple as "Jordan did it." I meant its possible for a perimeter player, and if anyone can repeat the feat, why not LeBron? You ignored my following comments that he has more of a big's body and is learning to play closer to the hoop. Plus, Jordan did it with hand-checking being legal.

How many SFs outweigh most centers yet are quick enough to stay with PGs?

And yes, he will be playing the 4 for longer stretches.

I get that there's a ceiling to everything, but its not out of the question to see him go 50%, 51%, 53%, and now around 55%, when considering all of the elements at play. He's 27, just learning to play close to the basket, and still needs to improve his jumper, both from 3 and in the mid-range. Plus, more shooting threats might mean more open lanes to attack the basket.

[R-Star]

Originally Posted by Jace

Possibly brainfartting right now, are you saying its hypocritical to not have a problem with sex before marriage or children out of wedlock?

I could be having a comprehension lapse, but that's how its coming across. If I'm reading that correctly, gonna need an explanation. No need for flames here, just asking.

And just to note, I would never criticize anyone for benign beliefs like these. Just intrigued. But hypothetically, R-Star, are you saying if someone were to say "I disagree with your view that folks shouldn't fornicate before marriage" they would then be hypocritical to oppose one's view that its not right to have children out of wedlock? I don't understand the hypocrisy, but I guess I'm missing something.



I suppose I'm basing it on his improvement and increasing comfort in Miami. Pardon me if my argument came across as simple as "Jordan did it." I meant its possible for a perimeter player, and if anyone can repeat the feat, why not LeBron? You ignored my following comments that he has more of a big's body and is learning to play closer to the hoop. Plus, Jordan did it with hand-checking being legal.

How many SFs outweigh most centers yet are quick enough to stay with PGs?

And yes, he will be playing the 4 for longer stretches.

I get that there's a ceiling to everything, but its not out of the question to see him go 50%, 51%, 53%, and now around 55%, when considering all of the elements at play. He's 27, just learning to play close to the basket, and still needs to improve his jumper, both from 3 and in the mid-range. Plus, more shooting threats might mean more open lanes to attack the basket.

The idea was its hypocritical if someone were get mad that Irving views pre marital sex and child birth the way he does, when they're trying to defend their own view of it as the right answer.

He views it one way, you view it the other. I wasn't calling you yourself hypocritical seeing as you added the whole "is it a religious or personal thing?" to your post.


As far as Lebron, he's got a lot of miles. 27 for Lebron is like 30 for a guy out of college. And as far as him playing more at the 4, that may get him higher percentages, but I could also see him getting a lot less shots if hes at the 4.

We'll see, but my view is I think he's peaked. I've been wrong before but we'll see how it plays out shortly since the season is just around the corner.