Top 5 PFs in the NBA coming into the 2012-2013 season

[36 Karat]

Originally Posted by BlakeJesus

I think it has something to do with his past, so you definitely are right there, but he also turned up his game in the playoffs. He's obviously not prime Timmy anymore, but 17.4/9.4/2.8 with 2.1 blocks and only 1.5 TO's in 33 mpg over 14 playoff games is still some high end production. He's probably getting the benefit of the doubt being listed on some of these lists, but he can still bring it.

This is true. And it's never clear when comparing the value of physical production with experience, knowledge, and outright wisdom.

Originally Posted by Luke

Love needs to show me numbers on a team that isn't awful before I call him the best anything. Do people not remember how bad the Wolves were after their rookie point guard went down for the season? You could attribute just as much credit to Rubio as Love for their start last year.

If anything, it's more impressive what he has done with the relatively little talent Minnesota had surrounding him. Lack of other outlets puts the focus on him. The fact that he was able to produce in that scenario only validates his game, it doesn't take away from it. If he were on a stacked team you'd be saying "well they have other options, I need to see him on a mediocre team so he can prove himself individually".

[XxIrvingxX]

"And under rate Love? That's news to me. I put him third on my list after a once in a generation offensive talent that isn't a liabilty on defense and another guy who can actually play both sides of the floor and has led his team to the playoffs. That seems perfectly fair for a guy who has won like 25% of the games he's played as a pro."

Um, no you didn't. You put him behind a guy who's clearly no longer in his prime, and isn't even coming close to making as much of an impact right now for the Mavericks as Kevin Love is for the Timberwolves, and a guy who clearly had a much better and more talented supporting cast then Kevin Love did, and the only reason he even led the Blazers to the playoffs was because Roy, their best player, got injured and ended up no longer being a starter. Blazers literally had no choice but to rely on Aldridge and Wesley Matthews, another person who deserves some credit here when talking about the Blazer's reaching the playoffs that year.

I can see you wanting to hold off on saying Love is the best PF because we haven't seen him in the playoffs yet, but you are definitely giving Aldridge a lot more credit then he truly deserves. There's a reason why Aldridge hasn't been an all star yet, and don't bring up the fact that Love's gotten more hype, fact is Love's gotten more media attention because he deserves the attention he's getting. In the two seasons Love has been an all star, he has outplayed Aldridge completely (except for defensively of course but it isn't as one sided as you may think), and you know it.

[Bogg]

Originally Posted by 36 Karat

If anything, it's more impressive what he has done with the relatively little talent Minnesota had surrounding him. Lack of other outlets puts the focus on him. The fact that he was able to produce in that scenario only validates his game, it doesn't take away from it. If he were on a stacked team you'd be saying "well they have other options, I need to see him on a mediocre team so he can prove himself individually".

Somebody's going to put up points on an NBA squad. It's how we got Mike James: 20 point scorer. What most people want to see is exactly how much help Kevin Love needs for a team to contend. Rip Hamilton as the leading scorer on a championship team wasn't as impressive as Dirk as the leading scorer.

[R-Star]

Originally Posted by Bogg

Somebody's going to put up points on an NBA squad. It's how we got Mike James: 20 point scorer. What most people want to see is exactly how much help Kevin Love needs for a team to contend. Rip Hamilton as the leading scorer on a championship team wasn't as impressive as Dirk as the leading scorer.

Love and Rubio already showed that together, they're a playoff contender in the West. With the improved team this year, if Rubio comes back healthy I think a lot of people will shut up.


Some won't though. I assume Luke will try to put most of the success on Rubio, and act like its a knock against Love. When in reality, you don't win games with just 1 player.

[XxIrvingxX]

Originally Posted by R-Star

Love and Rubio already showed that together, they're a playoff contender in the West. With the improved team this year, if Rubio comes back healthy I think a lot of people will shut up.


Some won't though. I assume Luke will try to put most of the success on Rubio, and act like its a knock against Love. When in reality, you don't win games with just 1 player.

I don't think Luke has any biased views towards Love, I just he's putting way to much emphasis on the fact that Love hasn't been able to lead the Timberwolves to the playoffs yet, which I think is stupid because even with Rubio the Timberwolves talent wise are still a joke of a team. This year will be interesting due to some of the new talent they have gotten.

[R-Star]

Originally Posted by XxIrvingxX

I don't think Luke has any biased views towards Love, I just he's putting way to much emphasis on the fact that Love hasn't been able to lead the Timberwolves to the playoffs yet, which I think is stupid because even with Rubio the Timberwolves talent wise are still a joke of a team. This year will be interesting due to some of the new talent they have gotten.

I'm waiting on seeing the new team, but if Rubio comes back healthy and the team performs the way I think they should, then I'll accept Luke and others argument on Love if he doesn't make it this year.


This is the first year the Wolves have put a solid team around Love in my opinion.

[Bogg]

I don't know, with Love out to start the season and Rubio's return date murky, I could see the Wolves finishing ninth or tenth this year in a close playoff race. I agree that, if healthy, the Wolves are a virtual playoff lock. I also think Nik Pekovic is going to impress this year.

[R-Star]

Originally Posted by Bogg

I don't know, with Love out to start the season and Rubio's return date murky, I could see the Wolves finishing ninth or tenth this year in a close playoff race. I agree that, if healthy, the Wolves are a virtual playoff lock. I also think Nik Pekovic is going to impress this year.

Pekovic has turned out to be a solid looking young center. There aren't many out there.

[Bogg]

Originally Posted by R-Star

Pekovic has turned out to be a solid looking young center. There aren't many out there.

He just might be good enough in the middle that the Wolves can contend if they turn Derrick Williams into an elite perimeter scorer.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by R-Star

You're kidding me right? So that little sentence you made there negates the fact that Roy, not Aldridge was the key player during most of the 3 year playoff run you're talking about?



You're doing a terrible ****ing job here. Fold harder.

LMA was the best player on a playoff team in 2011. That is a fact. He was also a allstar-lite bigman in the two previous years when the Blazers topped 50 games in consecutive seasons.

I've said this like four times but I'll reiterate. If Love matches his current production and the Wolves make the playoffs then I'd have no problem putting him over LaMarcus. But he needs to show me winning basketball before I do so. It's not that complicated.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by E.H. Munro

I'm pretty sure that like me he was an LMA skeptic until 2011. That year Aldridge opened a lot of eyes because he played a lot better when Roy wasn't around. And he pretty much carried a team whose second best player was Wes Matthews into the postseason.

Thank you.

[hobojoe]

Originally Posted by R-Star

But........ yea ok. Can't argue that.



They went 4 and 7 after Rubio's injury, which is bad, but not worst in the league bad like Luke is making them out to be. They then went 1 and 13 to finish the year, which to me seems like everyone just gave up once they saw they weren't making the playoffs.

Not to mention Love essentially missed the last 8 games of the season too. He wasn't even there for half of that 1-13 finish.

[XxIrvingxX]

Originally Posted by hobojoe

Not to mention Love essentially missed the last 8 games of the season too. He wasn't even there for half of that 1-13 finish.

I actually don't remember that. If that was the case though, then this just essentially killed Luke's argument.

[RollWithEm]

50% of defense is securing the rebound. Love is a top 3 defensive rebounder in the league. Saying he plays "no semblance of defense" is incorrect based solely on that fact.

[E.H. Munro]

Originally Posted by hobojoe

Not to mention Love essentially missed the last 8 games of the season too. He wasn't even there for half of that 1-13 finish.

Yes, but the part of it that he was there they were 0-7.