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James Harden TRADED to Rockets

38K views 694 replies 62 participants last post by  kbdullah 
#1 ·
James Harden turned down a four-year, $52 million contract extension offer from the Oklahoma City Thunder.

Harden is seeking a maximum-level deal worth $60 million over four years.

The Thunder have until Wednesday to sign Harden to a contract extension or allow him the opportunity to become a restricted free agent on July 1.

Via Adrian Wojnarowski/Yahoo! Sports
 
#494 ·
Rockets won that game. They are a game over in the West and according to R-Star every player on their roster sucks. Personally I don't think they have a tremendous amount of talent either, but I don't watch them enough to have the same level of expertise on this subject that others have.
 
#504 ·
For what it's worth, I said from the beginning that some people in this thread were being far too critical of KMart's game, and that he would fit seamlessly in with the Thunder. I also said that Harden was by far the better player for Houston to acquire. Anyone taking a look at Harden's numbers with this Rockets team and criticizing him hasn't watched many Houston games, IMO.

I've seen 35 - 40 Rockets games this year, and I can definitely say a few things about Harden.
  1. He is an above average passer. His court vision is solid and his basketball instincts are sound. He's got a few major problems, though, when it comes to piling up assists. He plays a lot of minutes with Jeremy Lin - a poor catch and shoot guy from 2-pt and 3-pt range. He also plays a lot of pick-and-roll ball with one of the worst finishers at the center position in the league (Asik). I would say 20% of the nice passes I have seen Harden make to Asik have resulted in him completely fumbling the catch and not even getting it up on the rim. Also, Lin and Parsons are both willing passers. Often Harden makes a nice pass that results in another pass rather than a shot.

  2. He is an alpha dog. He carries himself with the swagger of some of the greats. He is just new at this role. Give him a little time to grow.

  3. Most importantly, though, I think the main reason for Harden's struggles is simply that he is not in the necessary basketball shape required to play 38+ minutes a game as his team's best player. You can see a noticeable dip in his numbers that coincides perfectly with the Rockets 8-game stretch in 12 nights where they played 7 of those on the road. His body is not ready for those types of rigors of the NBA season just yet. His shot always looks flat on the back end of a back-to-back. His ability to take his man off the dribble seems to falter during his 4th game in 5 nights. I don't think this is a product of his skill or of his potential to be great. I just think he needs to get in a little better shape for next season.
 
#505 ·
No one said he wasn't an above average passer. That's exactly what I called him in my posts. Others were calling him an amazing passer who was the real set up guy on the Thunder. It just wasn't true. Harden makes some very nice passes, but also makes some reckless ones, especially when he can't get by a double team. Blaming his teammates for him leading the league in turnovers is weak. Andre Miller led the league in assists playing for a Cavs team whos best player was Lamond Murray. And his turnovers weren't even close to Hardens.

He makes a good number of bad, forced passes a game because hes a ball hog. That's his fault, not his teams.

And saying Harden isn't in basketball shape also isn't an excuse. Hes a 2 guard. If hes not in good enough shape to play the minutes given to franchise guys, that's on him, and isn't an excuse.


Bottom line is, the Rockets are right where I predicted they'd be with Harden, fighting for a bottom playoff spot. Hardens shooting percentage nose dived, an exact quote of what I predicted. All the while the Thunder haven't missed a beat, with Kevin Martin fitting into the 3rd scorer/6th man role perfectly like I said he would.


Diable brought up how I trashed Asik and his contract all offseason and how did I reply? I replied by saying "Yep, I was sure wrong about that one." Why am I the only guy around here who acknowledges he's not infallible? Its like I'm posting on a website with a bunch of guys who think their opinions are the be all end all of basketball and they can do no wrong.
 
#506 ·
Eh, both teams are in pretty good shape from that trade. Houston's positioned themselves as one of the front-runners in the Kevin Love sweepstakes two years from now and reinvented their team as something fun in the meantime. OKC has Kevin Martin filling Harden's old role competently and will have Lamb and Toronto's lottery pick this year(very underrated detail regarding that trade) to re-load with down the road.
 
#508 ·
At the end of the day he's putting up something like 26/5/5 last time I checked as a 23 year old in his first season as the man. And his less than stellar team is competing for a playoff spot. He's not a top five player or anything, but I would say that he's had the second most impressive season at his position so far.


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#510 ·
Its not really a less than impressive team. They've played just fine when he's out. Chandler Parsons is one of the more impressive up and coming 3's in the league. Lin has settled into a decent role. Asik has proven to be a reliable defender. And they have some decent role players.

The point is his shooting percentage went way down, which most people argued it probably only drop a couple points. And he's leading the league in turnovers after being called an amazing set up man. And also the fact he isn't this amazing defender people also tried to label him as. When playing the Pacers recently Paul George completely shut him down, while on the other end Parsons had to cover George because Harden isn't even close to the best wing defender on the team.


None of you remember saying how his offensive production would only take a small dip and that he was one of the most efficient guards in the league? No one? Luke? Diable? EH? MemphisX?
No one remembers talking up his defense? No one?
And no one remembers basically calling him an amazing floor general......who ended up leading the league in turnovers?



I'm so tire of these "Well, hes averaging 26 points a game so I wasn't really wrong......" Yea, that's great and all, but we aren't talking about how many points a game hes averaging. I've brought up multiple times what we're talking about, and its the fact multiple posters brought up his amazing efficiency and how it would only dip a bit, his amazing passing ability, and his defense.

And now no one wants to talk about that.
 
#517 ·
Pretty sure 23/5/5 on 44-45% was my call. And considering the increase in volume that seems pretty fair for an offseason guess.


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Jesus. Just come out once and say you were off on a prediction.


Its guys like you who make me hate posting on here at times. Why is anyone even bothering coming to the site if every single poster is correct 100% of the time?
 
#521 ·
Admitting I was wrong on his exact numbers? Sure, technically I was wrong I guess? I was pretty close.

This "Luke never admits when he's wrong" thin you've got going on is weird. I'm wrong all the time and I don't have a problem admitting it. Just ask me about the lakers. But in this specific case id venture to say I was close enough. Isn't he shooting like 43 percent anyways?


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#523 ·
Haven't checked the numbers but I'd assume Harden's ts% is above league average considering the type of shots he's taking.

So, was I was by a percent or two, sure rstar. But harden shooting that much is necessary due to the quality of his teammates ala Kobe and the lakers post shaq and pre pau. He's still not an inefficient player.


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#524 ·
Kobe is being accused of chucking this year and is still shooting 46%. I don't use ts%. I don't know why the type of shots a player is taking should matter. If you're taking a lot of 3's and that drops your efficiency, why should there be a special % that takes that into account to defend you shitty shooting percentage?

If I have a guy who takes the majority of his shots driving to the paint and scores 26 points at 46%, and a guy who makes the majority of his at mid to long range and scores 26 points on 43% scoring, its pretty clear to me who the more productive scorer is.
 
#525 ·
Harden is 11th in the league among swingmen in TS% this season. KMart is 3rd. Here's the top-15 list:
  1. Ray Allen
  2. Lebron James
  3. Kevin Martin
  4. Thabo Sefolosha
  5. Roger Mason
  6. J.J. Redick
  7. Manu Ginobili
  8. Martell Webster
  9. Patrick Mills
  10. Nando De Colo
  11. James Harden
  12. OJ Mayo
  13. Kobe Bryant
  14. Dwayne Wade
  15. Randy Foye
 
#528 ·
As long as you have 1 or 2 decent 3 point threats on the floor which most teams do at any given time the spacing doesn't really matter. And it may take less shots to score 23 if you're taking 3's, but they're also being shot with a much worse percentage, so more often than not its much more efficient scoring 2's. Not to mention you draw much more contact driving the lane and get to the line.


But I agree, a discussion for another thread.
 
#540 ·
I'm glad you left when I brought up your "Harden is better than Kobe" comment you made last year. Back now though are you?

You do understand my job is mainly math and chemistry correct?


I can give you a volume and displacement problem I finished about an hour ago if you'd like to give it a try.
 
#550 ·
I just dont understand, for the life of me, how someone can argue that FG% is more relevant than TS%.

You can argue PER all you want, I have no problem with that. However, TS% and other advanced stats like reb%, ast%, ect are pure mathematics that make perfect sense. Again, you are arguing TS% for arguments sake to support your opinions.
 
#553 ·
R-Star, you're also harping on this 43% shooting figure. We're still just halfway through the season, the 43% figure was just under 47% a week ago before this shooting slump. It'll happen over the course of the season as the number one option. He's been reasonably efficient, obviously not as efficient as the 3rd option sixth man as you said would happen, but he's not exactly Iversoning it out there every night.
 
#581 ·
I'm shocked that he's defending his statements. Don't think I've seen this from the diable before. Respect.


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#583 ·
#587 ·
Chess in the sun? Have you met the NFL? A 3+ hour sport that involves a ball actually in play and moving for approximately 15 total minutes in all of that time. Its just that every time a move is made - its really ****ing loud and fast. Its awesome, and seriously FAR closer to chess than baseball ever could be.

I love all the major sports. Baseball... its tough to parallel it to a board game... Hmm.
 
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