James Harden TRADED to Rockets

[hobojoe]

Originally Posted by Luke

If you're 6'7 and you grab three boards a game then you're not average. And I have absolutely no idea where you're getting this passing thing from. Have you ever watched Kevin Martin play? He can put the ball in the bucket but that's about it.

Yea Kevin Martin is about as one dimensional as it gets in the NBA. If he's a good or average rebounder and/or passer, please start listing all of the below average rebounding and passing swing men.

[MemphisX]

Yeah, I am pretty sure James Harden will be a top 5 scorer this season.

I also like how people ignore the fact Kevin Martin has never had a major role on a winning team in his career(6 career playoff games in a 10 year career). So the 20 ppg thing is total bullshit.

[Porn Player]

Originally Posted by Luke

If you're 6'7 and you grab three boards a game then you're not average. And I have absolutely no idea where you're getting this passing thing from. Have you ever watched Kevin Martin play? He can put the ball in the bucket but that's about it.

Career numbers show me that just 0.1 is the difference in RPG between Harden and Martin. By the way, that 0.1 is in favour of Martin. He might not have had his best year last year, but he was playing on a garbage side that asked him to carry the load offensively.

Oh and as for the passing, one is being lauded as a really good passer of the basketball, the other is being called a black hole. KMart got up to 2.8 apg last year, only 0.9 behind Harden (but ahead of the previous year from Harden). When you have Kevin Durant, Westbrook and Ibaka, picking up gimme assists isn't going to be difficult. Martin can fill up the bucket and teams are well aware of that and will play him close, I'm confident he's good enough to make the right decision in that circumstance.

[e-monk]

actually if you compare their minute to minute stats the differences are bigger

but this isnt just about Martin for Harden and its not just about 1.5m a year - it's about a ton more flexibility going forward and being able to pay for 3 or 4 young guys on rookie contracts instead of just Harden + luxury tax

[Porn Player]

They played identical minutes last year. (although last year being a lockout year, I tend to take the stats with a grain of salt)

My point is, the difference in rebounding and passing is not the gulf some people are making out.

[e-monk]

no and some of it is role related - certainly Harden will be terminating more possessions with shots in his new role and I doubt as the focus of the offense (and opposing defenses) his scoring efficiency will be the same

[MemphisX]

Originally Posted by e-monk

actually if you compare their minute to minute stats the differences are bigger

but this isnt just about Martin for Harden and its not just about 1.5m a year - it's about a ton more flexibility going forward and being able to pay for 3 or 4 young guys on rookie contracts instead of just Harden + luxury tax

I see what you are saying but you don't piss away a chance at a title for "flexibility". Flexibility to do what exactly?

[e-monk]

flexibility to continue to compete for a title for several more years without getting hammered by luxury taxes while not hurting your chances all that bad this year

[R-Star]

Originally Posted by Luke

If you're 6'7 and you grab three boards a game then you're not average. And I have absolutely no idea where you're getting this passing thing from. Have you ever watched Kevin Martin play? He can put the ball in the bucket but that's about it.

He's a shooting guard. What exactly does the height have to do with being average for a sg?

And yes, I've watched Kevin Martin play, and yes, you guys are going out of your way to underrate the shit out of him. Hes an average passer whos now being made out to be some fumbling idiot who can't pass the ball. The guy isn't a turnover machine like hes being made out to be.



Its so pathetic on here how guys all come together to stroke each others ego's.

"Kevin Martin sucks!"

"Yea yea! Me too! He sucks!"

Yea, no... he doesn't. His assist to turnover ratio isn't bad, so this whole idea that hes throwing the ball into the stands is plain bullshit. Not to mention guys are trying to undercut his offensive talent, when in 2010-2011 he was second behind Kobe in points per minute.



I love how everyone here has all the sudden seen 100+ Kevin Martin games. You guys are ****ing ridiculous.

[R-Star]

Originally Posted by hobojoe

Yea Kevin Martin is about as one dimensional as it gets in the NBA. If he's a good or average rebounder and/or passer, please start listing all of the below average rebounding and passing swing men.

Guys getting 2 rebounds a game and having as many turn overs as assists?

[R-Star]

Originally Posted by MemphisX

Yeah, I am pretty sure James Harden will be a top 5 scorer this season.

I also like how people ignore the fact Kevin Martin has never had a major role on a winning team in his career(6 career playoff games in a 10 year career). So the 20 ppg thing is total bullshit.

Look up the teams hes been on. Kyle Lowry and Ron Artest have been the two best players he's played with.


Nice point Memphis.

[R-Star]

Originally Posted by MemphisX

I see what you are saying but you don't piss away a chance at a title for "flexibility". Flexibility to do what exactly?

Keep the core together while adding quality role players around it, and hopefully grow talent from draft picks.

They sign Harden and they have way too much locked up in 4 players. Ibaka could have gone for the max if he felt like it.

[RollWithEm]

The other thing potentially getting lost in this trade is the fact that late lottery picks are more valuable on a team like the Thunder than they typically are on a true rebuilding squad. If Bargnani and/or Lowry have any sort of injury problems this year, that pick could get real interesting in a good draft. Also, Jeremy Lamb and Perry Jones could turn out to be starters alongside OKC's current big three if they are given the proper time to develop in this good environment.

[R-Star]

Originally Posted by RollWithEm

The other thing potentially getting lost in this trade is the fact that late lottery picks are more valuable on a team like the Thunder than they typically are on a true rebuilding squad. If Bargnani and/or Lowry have any sort of injury problems this year, that pick could get real interesting in a good draft. Also, Jeremy Lamb and Perry Jones could turn out to be starters alongside OKC's current big three if they are given the proper time to develop in this good environment.

True. Most championship teams have to go out and sign guys every year to fill out their roster and never get decent prospects. The Lakers the only guy I can think of recently is Bynum, and the Heat have the same problem.

San Antonio is the only one off the top of my head that was able to keep a stocked talent pool through having some amazing late picks in the draft.


Being a title contender and having quality young players coming into the system is going to be a real boost for OKC.


Like everyones said, Martin won't replace Harden 100%, but they will improve in other areas because of this trade.

[E.H. Munro]

Originally Posted by RollWithEm

If Bargnani and/or Lowry have any sort of injury problems this year, that pick could get real interesting in a good draft.

The 2013 draft is about three players deep. So Toronto is protected if things really go south for them.