James Harden TRADED to Rockets

[R-Star]

Originally Posted by Hyperion

Maybe you're not understanding the NBA. Harden COULD become better one day even if he's not today. Therefore he's a better player. Harden has been underrated by you and quite a few others and hopefully he develops into the type of player he can be, but bad habits form fast after you get 80million guaranteed to you. The league is so slim with quality SGs that Harden easily slides into the top 5. There's Kobe, Wade, Johnson, and that's about it. Harden is still a tweener though and has a ceiling just a little higher than Martin.

Where did I ever say he couldn't become better, or that he wasn't clearly a better player than Kevin Martin?



Are we making stuff up now? Is that what we're doing?

[Hyperion]

You don't understand. Martin sucks and Harden is the greatest ever. No, wait, he's da gr8est eva!! People forget about good players when they're on crappy teams.

[e-monk]

Originally Posted by Hyperion

Maybe you're not understanding the NBA. Harden COULD become better one day even if he's not today. Therefore he's a better player. Harden has been underrated by you and quite a few others and hopefully he develops into the type of player he can be, but bad habits form fast after you get 80million guaranteed to you. The league is so slim with quality SGs that Harden easily slides into the top 5. There's Kobe, Wade, Johnson, and that's about it. Harden is still a tweener though and has a ceiling just a little higher than Martin.

so the problem here is that the trade wasnt Harden for Martin, it was Harden for Martin + Lamb + picks + cap flexibility

people who are focusing on Martin v Harden are really thinking about how the trade impacts OKCs prospects this year which is fair play

but if the answer is that Martin can do enough of what Harden did this year (which seems to be the case so far) and you still get all the rest (prospects, cap space etc) down the line and therefore you can continue to compete at a high level and maybe even become a deeper (AND less expensive) team for it then what is the issue?

[E.H. Munro]

Originally Posted by Hyperion

Maybe you're not understanding the NBA. Harden COULD become better one day even if he's not today. Therefore he's a better player. Harden has been underrated by you and quite a few others and hopefully he develops into the type of player he can be, but bad habits form fast after you get 80million guaranteed to you. The league is so slim with quality SGs that Harden easily slides into the top 5. There's Kobe, Wade, Johnson, and that's about it. Harden is still a tweener though and has a ceiling just a little higher than Martin.

A little higher? He isn't a mortal lock to miss 25 games to injury, actually plays defense, and isn't a black hole. His present is better. His peak is a level that Martin hasn't ever seen (and at 30 won't ever see).

[XxIrvingxX]

Originally Posted by R-Star

Uhhhh yea, Harden doesn't play anything over average defense, and Martin has actually done that quite well if you've watched any OKC games.

Never said anything about Hardens defense at all. All I said was that he needs to play great defense to make up for them losing Harden.

Originally Posted by R-Star

And Harden was getting 4 assists per game last year. Lets quit acting like he was out there setting up the majority of plays like some sort of pass wizard.

Again, I said absolutely no such thing.

Maybe you misinterpreted my point. The reason why I said Martin would have to do those things is because those are the things Harden could quite possibly end up becoming good at. James Harden is still a very young player, he's only 23 years old. He has plenty of time to be able to pick up on those things and become great at doing them.

Martin on the other hand is already in his prime, pretty soon he's going to start to be on the decline, which is bad considering how OKC's two best players are better scorers than him and are still very young, so there isn't much purpose imo for Martin to be in OKC. But I guess he could help others become great scorers.

OKC traded away a potential all star in Harden (which he will most likely become) for someone who is just known for scoring and that's it. To make up for it, Martin is going to have to start doing more than just scoring.

[e-monk]

Originally Posted by E.H. Munro

A little higher? He isn't a mortal lock to miss 25 games to injury, actually plays defense, and isn't a black hole. His present is better. His peak is a level that Martin hasn't ever seen (and at 30 won't ever see).

so? Harden was never going to be any of that as 3rd banana and the thunder weren't able to pay 1st banana money and continue to be viable so what should they have done the deal or not? (or did you just want to wade in to correct someone slightly?)

[R-Star]

Originally Posted by E.H. Munro

A little higher? He isn't a mortal lock to miss 25 games to injury, actually plays defense, and isn't a black hole. His present is better. His peak is a level that Martin hasn't ever seen (and at 30 won't ever see).

Yep. Hes a lock to miss 25 games for sure EH. We know this because you said so, and so far you've been right about everything with Martin.


He sure is a black hole though. I mean, he's scoring as much as Harden did last year....... on less shots.


And you know, people actually watch OKC games, and they've seen Martin play decent defense all year so far. But again, you say he doesn't so we'll just go with your word on it.




Who wants to bet if Martin plays like this all year, EH hides from this thread until I forcibly bring him back in kicking and screaming, and even then he won't admit he was wrong?

[R-Star]

Originally Posted by XxIrvingxX

Never said anything about Hardens defense at all. All I said was that he needs to play great defense to make up for them losing Harden.



Again, I said absolutely no such thing.

Maybe you misinterpreted my point. The reason why I said Martin would have to do those things is because those are the things Harden could quite possibly end up becoming good at. James Harden is still a very young player, he's only 23 years old. He has plenty of time to be able to pick up on those things and become great at doing them.

Martin on the other hand is already in his prime, pretty soon he's going to start to be on the decline, which is bad considering how OKC's two best players are better scorers than him and are still very young, so there isn't much purpose imo for Martin to be in OKC. But I guess he could help others become great scorers.

OKC traded away a potential all star in Harden (which he will most likely become) for someone who is just known for scoring and that's it. To make up for it, Martin is going to have to start doing more than just scoring.

Jesus.

1) Harden is also only known for scoring. He isn't a great defender, hes not some top assist man, honestly, tell me what Hardens known for outside of scoring? He can add chucking and being a ball hog now I guess.

2) Kevin Martin is a finished product and will only get worse, and Harden will improve? Great. You do understand Martins contract is up after this season right? He either resigns in OKC for a big discount to what he makes now, or they use that cap space on other things. They didn't have the money to pay Harden a max contract.

3) Martin has to do this, Martin has to do that to make up for Harden being gone? Have you watched OKC play? He's filling Hardens role perfectly. Hes scoring at the same clip and same percentages as Harden did when he left, so scoring wise they aren't missing a damn thing.




Does anyone here even watch ****ing basketball? Its an honest question.

[e-monk]

I do sometimes

[R-Star]

Originally Posted by e-monk

I do sometimes

I know. We've posted in gameday threads together.


Like brothers...

[XxIrvingxX]

Originally Posted by R-Star

Jesus.

1) Harden is also only known for scoring. He isn't a great defender, hes not some top assist man, honestly, tell me what Hardens known for outside of scoring? He can add chucking and being a ball hog now I guess.

2) Kevin Martin is a finished product and will only get worse, and Harden will improve? Great. You do understand Martins contract is up after this season right? He either resigns in OKC for a big discount to what he makes now, or they use that cap space on other things. They didn't have the money to pay Harden a max contract.

3) Martin has to do this, Martin has to do that to make up for Harden being gone? Have you watched OKC play? He's filling Hardens role perfectly. Hes scoring at the same clip and same percentages as Harden did when he left, so scoring wise they aren't missing a damn thing.

1) Again, I wasn't arguing this. Did you even read what I said?

2) Actually no I didn't...well shit.

3) Yea no he isn't. Scoring well in a couple of games isn't filling Harden's role perfectly. Harden may be a ball chucker now, but he wasn't like that in OKC, and when he did it, he did it when OKC needed someone to step up for them. I honestly don't know why he's suddenly doing it while abandoning all reasoning.

[E.H. Munro]

Originally Posted by e-monk

so? Harden was never going to be any of that as 3rd banana and the thunder weren't able to pay 1st banana money and continue to be viable so what should they have done the deal or not? (or did you just want to wade in to correct someone slightly?)

I'm not sure what any of this has to do with Hyperion's statement.

[MemphisX]

Still early and I stand by my thought that this will go down as a catastrophically bad trade for Okc. At the end of the season we will be talking about how good KMart's stats are and how much worse Okc became as a team.

[R-Star]

Originally Posted by MemphisX

Still early and I stand by my thought that this will go down as a catastrophically bad trade for Okc. At the end of the season we will be talking about how good KMart's stats are and how much worse Okc became as a team.

We will see. But are you saying they're playing worse right now? Because I don't see it.

[MemphisX]

Originally Posted by R-Star

We will see. But are you saying they're playing worse right now? Because I don't see it.

Yes. They are currently taking advantage of a very easy schedule. Only one win over a +.500 team.