James Harden TRADED to Rockets

[TucsonClip]

Originally Posted by R-Star

So? How does that have anything to do with who efficient someone scores?

Free throws are easy so they don't really count anymore? Because TS% is math?

You are completely missing the point, again.

Its a risk/reward assessment. Thats all it is. TS% measure shooting efficiency. Its basic, simple, straight to the point. Its not hard to understand it or why is it valuable, yet you continue to argue how pointless it is.

As far as the free throw comment, thats not even what im talking about. Im talking about a players entire shooting basis defined as TS%. Free throws are easier to make, just like dunks are easier to make than 14 foot jumpers. The point is they are all combined to show how efficient a player is in his shooting. Thats it.

There is nothing to spin.

No. I've always laughed when people try to math up sports. You can do percentages, you can do probability, but in reality you can't calculate a game like basketball. Shooters get hot, shooters get cold, players have break out years, or their games fall off, etc. There's no mathematical equation for luck. There's no mathematical equation for playing in an easier division. There's no mathematical equation for getting guarded by Lance Stephenson, instead of getting locked down by Paul George.

You must HATE baseball then. I would imagine you hate to watch it, knowing full on that there are going to be tons of statistics that come up measuring how well a player is performing. Especially one like on-base percentage or slugging percentage. Your mind must explode, wondering why nobody is talking about batting average.

FG% is what I judge a players scoring ability on. If a guy scores 20 in a game on 46% and goes to the line a lot because he drives, I value that over a guy who shoots 43% on those 20 points, but shoots a lot from outside.

You guys keep talking over and over about how amazing 3 pointers are, and I mentioned the top 3 point shooters in the league make 3 a game. Which would be 3 more points for a slasher to make at the line. Not tough.

What about a guy who can knockdown a bunch of threes but also gets fouled a lot on jumpers and shoots well at the line, you know like Dirk? The point is how efficient a player shoots OVERALL. Not how many 3s a guy can attempt in order to outscore a guy who drives on every shot attempt.

[R-Star]

Originally Posted by TucsonClip

You are completely missing the point, again.

Its a risk/reward assessment. Thats all it is. TS% measure shooting efficiency. Its basic, simple, straight to the point. Its not hard to understand it or why is it valuable, yet you continue to argue how pointless it is.

As far as the free throw comment, thats not even what im talking about. Im talking about a players entire shooting basis defined as TS%. Free throws are easier to make, just like dunks are easier to make than 14 foot jumpers. The point is they are all combined to show how efficient a player is in his shooting. Thats it.

There is nothing to spin.



You must HATE baseball then. I would imagine you hate to watch it, knowing full on that there are going to be tons of statistics that come up measuring how well a player is performing. Especially one like on-base percentage or slugging percentage. Your mind must explode, wondering why nobody is talking about batting average.



What about a guy who can knockdown a bunch of threes but also gets fouled a lot on jumpers and shoots well at the line, you know like Dirk? The point is how efficient a player shoots OVERALL. Not how many 3s a guy can attempt in order to outscore a guy who drives on every shot attempt.

I do hate baseball. But trying to say "Well they do it in baseball!" isn't an argument. Baseball isn't basketball. Players don't stand around all game long. Its the worst sport in the world. But again, ties into me laughing and mentioning money ball earlier.

And as far as the Dirk comment, just go look which players are top in the league at FTA's. Anyone trying to argue that guys get to the line just as much playing perimeter play as guys who drive the basket are lying to themselves.


Again as I said earlier, we obviously don't agree here. Most people don't agree with me on this. I'm fine with that. No one needs to try to change my opinion.

[Jamel Irief]

Originally Posted by Diable

It's very simply because TS% is inconveniently in favor of James Harden.

So remember when you said this?

Originally Posted by Diable

Kobe is like 80th in the NBA in field goal percentage. Among qualified players. Among all players in the NBA he's dead in the middle, about 230th. There's not enough BS in the world to make that go away.

http://www.basketballforum.com/nba-f...ml#post6816238

Diable likes FG% when it hurts Kobe. Diable only looks at TS% when FG% favors Kobe.

Just admit you have an agenda here and I'll shut up. Instead you probably won't post in this thread again unless its 30 posts later to take a cheap one-line pot shot at R-star.

[Diable]

Damn Jamel. Your reading comprehension sucks. Not surprising given how desperately you need to troll. Go look up where Kobe ranked in TS% at that point and see how ****ing smart you feel. It ain't going to suit you agenda.

[R-Star]

Originally Posted by Diable

Damn Jamel. Your reading comprehension sucks. Not surprising given how desperately you need to troll. Go look up where Kobe ranked in TS% at that point and see how ****ing smart you feel. It ain't going to suit you agenda.

Are you ever going to respond to saying Harden was easily better than Kobe last year? Or are you just going to keep dodging it? Its been almost a year and it just shuts you right up every single time.

[PauloCatarino]

Originally Posted by R-Star

Are you ever going to respond to saying Harden was easily better than Kobe last year? Or are you just going to keep dodging it? Its been almost a year and it just shuts you right up every single time.

Personally, i've never taken Diable seriously after THAT post.
Untill he adresses it i will be, like, why the **** am i reading you if you don't even stand for what you say? F!

[Jamel Irief]

Originally Posted by Diable

Damn Jamel. Your reading comprehension sucks. Not surprising given how desperately you need to troll. Go look up where Kobe ranked in TS% at that point and see how ****ing smart you feel. It ain't going to suit you agenda.

Not relevant. You were the one claiming FG% was highly relevant in April. Your words, not mine. Now that it debunks your "harden is easily better than Kobe" claim you want to only look at ts%.


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[Diable]

Originally Posted by Jamel Irief

Not relevant. You were the one claiming FG% was highly relevant in April. Your words, not mine. Now that it debunks your "harden is easily better than Kobe" claim you want to only look at ts%.


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You are clearly reading that...where?.Kobe was shooting 29% on three pointers at that point. Wasn't he? I believe he was also among the league leaders in 3pters attempted in spite of the brickage. Relatively speaking his TS% was lower than his Field Goal %,...which is why I didn't bother mentioning it. It went without saying that his TS% was terrible. Everyone knew this shit any way. You're not this dense Jamel. You know damned well you ****ed that up. You're so desperate to carry this torch that you shot yourself in the foot with your own big mouth.

[R-Star]

So we aren't talking about your comment last year?

[Jamel Irief]

Originally Posted by Diable

You are clearly reading that...where?.Kobe was shooting 29% on three pointers at that point. Wasn't he? I believe he was also among the league leaders in 3pters attempted in spite of the brickage. Relatively speaking his TS% was lower than his Field Goal %,...which is why I didn't bother mentioning it. It went without saying that his TS% was terrible. Everyone knew this shit any way. You're not this dense Jamel. You know damned well you ****ed that up. You're so desperate to carry this torch that you shot yourself in the foot with your own big mouth.

Again here are your EXACT WORDS.

Kobe is like 80th in the NBA in field goal percentage. Among qualified players. Among all players in the NBA he's dead in the middle, about 230th. There's not enough BS in the world to make that go away.

So let me ask you, where does Harden currently rank amongst players in FG%? Is there any amount of BS that will make Harden's FG% go away?

Or are you going to claim that when someone defends Kobes FG% its BS, but when they defend on Hardens FG% its valid?

And then you give R-star a hard time for wanting to ignore his TS% and focus on his FG%?

It's also laughable that you are informing me of Kobe's % numbers last year and claiming I "****ed it up by not knowing." In ten minutes I can show 15 different posts I made bitching about his jacking.

The fact still is that hardens fg% is the same as what you mocked Kobe for. No bs will make that go away.

[Jamel Irief]

Originally Posted by R-Star

So we aren't talking about your comment last year?

I'm shocked that he's defending his statements. Don't think I've seen this from the diable before. Respect.


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[TucsonClip]

Originally Posted by R-Star

I do hate baseball. But trying to say "Well they do it in baseball!" isn't an argument. Baseball isn't basketball. Players don't stand around all game long. Its the worst sport in the world. But again, ties into me laughing and mentioning money ball earlier.

You missed my point there too then. That wasnt my point nor was it my argument. I give up, this is mind numbing

[Jamel Irief]

Is there anybody under the age of 80 who doesn't hate baseball? It's chess in the sun.


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[RollWithEm]

Originally Posted by R-Star

Its actually the fact that Harden gets to the line 5 more times a game, if you'd like to look. Which in fact would mean Harden scores at a worse rate, but gets more points at the line.

I agree 100% with everything not bolded. What do all of the unbolded parts of your post along with all of my posts add up to???

Harden scores at a BETTER rate... where better means more efficient.

[RollWithEm]

Is James Harden the best driver in the NBA?

Harden averages nine drives per game, which is fourth among players whose teams have the cameras. The top four: Tony Parker (10.8), Rajon Rondo (10.1), Russell Westbrook (9.3), and Jrue Holiday (9.2). As an aside, that Holiday number is a fantastically good sign for Philly. He ranked below average by this metric last season, and he’s piling up about twice as many drives per game this season, according to the 2011-12 data I’ve reviewed. Philly is still below average as a team in drives per game, which tells you how much heavy lifting Holiday is doing for a very limited bunch.

Back to Harden: Houston is scoring 1.51 points per possession on trips in which he drives at any time in the shot clock. That is easily the highest mark among all players in the 15-team database with more than a token number of drives. It is a mammoth number; keep in mind, teams average just about one point per possession overall. Harden has drawn a foul on one-third of his drives, which is among the highest numbers in the data set, and sort of amazing when you think about it.

He has turned over the ball on just 4 percent of his drives, one of the lowest numbers in the data set. The dude is scary. These numbers paint him as even more valuable than we might think.

Just some more interesting data that confirms everything I have seen out of him this season.