LeBron James - 2012-13 Most Valuable Player

[Jace]

Originally Posted by Sir Patchwork

People have taken LeBron for granted ever since they decided they wanted to dislike him for irrational reasons. A lot of those people are just apathetic now and acting in silence. It's a shame because they spoke too soon and now they either have to eat their words and enjoy him making history, or shut up and be stubborn.

Statistically, the difference between Durant and LeBron is marginal. You can absolutely make a case for Durant. He has been an all-category player and leading scorer in the NBA while being historically efficient. LeBron certainly has the all-around game and defensive end of the court in his favor.

I don't care either way. I just hope neither player is taken for granted. LeBron is on another level, and I hope this doesn't make people overlook the historic season Durant is having. The two best players in the NBA right now are the best pair of perimeter players the league has seen in a long, long time. I think back to Kobe and McGrady, but even those two fall short in comparison. For those who followed me from back in 2007 and 2008 know how much I respect Kobe's game, but I don't think he ever had a season like LeBron or Durant this year. That's saying something.

It's certainly akin to Bird/Magic in prime form. Both are absurdly good right now, but I think LeBron is noticeably more dominant, on both ends. Regarding Durant's efficiency advantage, I'm not sure how many voters look at eFG%/TS%/O-rating. They might just see LeBron's 56% and say he's scoring more efficiently.

[Sir Patchwork]

Originally Posted by Jamel Irief

Historic? Durant isn't doing anything people didn't see from Dirk from 04-07.

Dirk has never had a season as good as Durant is having.

[Sir Patchwork]

Originally Posted by Jace

It's certainly akin to Bird/Magic in prime form. Both are absurdly good right now, but I think LeBron is noticeably more dominant, on both ends. Regarding Durant's efficiency advantage, I'm not sure how many voters look at eFG%/TS%/O-rating. They might just see LeBron's 56% and say he's scoring more efficiently.

Youre right, although the FG%/FT%/3PT% trio has gained media love recently with Nash/Dirk winning MVP.

[yodurk]

Originally Posted by Jace

OK. And I completely agree with that, but you're now changing the position of your argument from...

...to something along the lines of "I know it's not right but this is how the writers vote."

Not changing my argument at all, actually. I am basically just saying the precedent for the award has been determined long before Lebron arrived on the NBA scene, and within that precedent, I believe Durant simply "fits" as the MVP if the season ended today. Not going to beat a dead horse any more beyond that, as many other comments in this thread state similar points.

[gi0rdun]

Can we rename this thread the LeBron James thread?

[Jace]

People get extremely caught up in the moment. All the media people I'm hearing right now are essentially saying LeBron has it locked up. There's still plenty of season left. This stretch has been absurd, but Durant is still within striking range.

[yodurk]

An interesting sub-point that came up earlier is, to what degree defensive performance should have an impact on the award. TBH, that is one of the least defined parts of the MVP and is very inconsistently weighted each year.

I have to believe offensive performance (both scoring and the "making teammates better" achievement) carries the vast majority of the weight; even as high as 90% if I had to put a number to it. Otherwise how did Steve Nash win 2 in a row, or Nowitzki winning one.

But then you see how many MVPs were excellent 2-way players, probably more often than not.

On top of that, you have an All-Defensive Team but not an All-Offensive Team. So it begs the question, do you let great defenders get recognized via All-D Team, or do you try to lump that into the All-NBA and MVP discussions? If so, what degree?

[Jace]

The parameters are inconsistent. But I'm fine with a poor individual defender like Nash getting it when he has such a ridiculous offensive year and is the key to the league's best offense. It's certainly important when comparing two similar-impact players, though.

[Dre]

Statistically it might be close, but LeBron is infinitely more valuable as a distributor. He affects more possessions than Durant does when you compound points, ability to draw double teams and his passing.

And defensively LeBron is better. I don't really see the argument whatsoever.

[Luke]

Durant the narrative was a better story than LeBron until his recent tear. So there's that.


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[Jace]

It'll be a better story when he gets one later on. Durant finally gets over the hump and eclipses his rival. I can see it now. He's still technically pre-prime and LeBron is at peak power while generating discussion on whether or not he's better than the best ever. Once LBJ gets to 5 to tie Mike, then we can get into voter fatigue and start giving it to guys who didn't have as strong of a season.

[yodurk]

Originally Posted by Dre

Statistically it might be close, but LeBron is infinitely more valuable as a distributor. He affects more possessions than Durant does when you compound points, ability to draw double teams and his passing.

And defensively LeBron is better. I don't really see the argument whatsoever.

IMO, you are right to an extent, but it also neglects a facet about Durant's presence that is frequently missed. Lebron directly affects almost every possession because he touches the ball on every possession in his point forward role and distributes better. Durant indirectly affects almost every possession because he is such an extreme threat to catch and shoot from nearly anywhere inside half court, that it creates invaluable spacing for his teammates in a different way from Lebron. The only thing with this is, it's impossible to quantify the benefit from Durant's standpoint beyond things like team scoring efficiency when he is/isn't on the floor. People are probably going to naturally weight this part of Lebron's game higher because it's just more easily understood and observed on paper. I've gotta believe this plays a big role in a guy like Westbrook being able to put up numbers like he does by getting into the lane, with the defense knowing that Durant guy is sitting out there waiting to kill you from deep. Not unlike what Ray Allen provided his teams for years, and still does in limited doses.

[Sir Patchwork]

LeBron has definitely pulled away with his recent tear. He has been unreal even for him over the past month, and that game against Oklahoma City will certainly weigh heavy in MVP voting.

It's crazy he will likely be pulling down his 4th MVP. That puts him with Kareem, Jordan, Russell and Wilt with 4+. And he is only 28.

[Luke]

It's crazier that he's actually deserved all of them without question.


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[BobStackhouse42]

Originally Posted by Sir Patchwork

It's crazy he will likely be pulling down his 4th MVP. That puts him with Kareem, Jordan, Russell and Wilt with 4+. And he is only 28.

And he should have gotten his 4th last year.