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View Poll Results: Best Player To Wear #3?
Allen Iverson 9 23.68%
Chris Paul 4 10.53%
Dwyane Wade 22 57.89%
Ben Wallace 1 2.63%
Dale Ellis 0 0%
Other (Please Specify) 2 5.26%
Voters: 38. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-27-2012, 08:03 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Re: Best Player to Wear #3?

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Originally Posted by Mattsanity View Post
I chose Wade, but Iverson is the most influential out of them all.
Why didn't you vote for Alvin Williams?
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Old 12-27-2012, 08:09 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Re: Best Player to Wear #3?

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Originally Posted by Najee View Post
The reason the 2000-01 Philadelphia 76ers were constructed the way they were is because of Allen Iverson's playing style. Iverson may have been the most difficult top-level player around whom to build a team I've ever seen, because he required a lot of shots to be effective offensively. Moreover, players would have to buy in to the reality that one guy was not only going to take all the shots, but do it at a terribly low clip.

Moreover, by playing style and ego, other scorers suffered playing alongside Iverson earlier in his career in Philadelphia (see Jerry Stackhouse, Jimmy Jackson, etc). Iverson's tendency to dominate the ball in such an inefficient manner was part of the reason he was moved to shooting guard.

So in order for an offense to be build around Iverson, Philadelphia had to build a team based on role players who were not considered offensive-minded players. The players also had to cover up his shortcomings, such as being a small shooting guard in a point guard's body. Eric Snow's greatest value was being a tall point guard who could guard other team's shooting guards. Theo Ratliff's and Dikembe Mutombo's value was based on cleaning up behind Iverson when he gambled in the passing lanes. Aaron McKie's value was being an outside shooter when teams collapsed on Iverson.

Philadelphia couldn't build a conventional team around Iverson because he was an unconventional player, and a good portion of that was Iverson's ego and selfishness as well as his playing style. The only way Philly was going to work in the Iverson era was find NBA players who were not and could not be offensively minded players -- which is a tough sell, to say the least.
Without AI, the Sixers were going to win less than 10 games that season. With AI, they went to the finals.

But I get it bro.

-bad teammate
-played in weak conference
-poor dress code

As of 2012, AI is probably the most polarizing player ever.

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Why didn't you vote for Alvin Williams?
haha, those were the days...
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Old 12-27-2012, 08:29 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Re: Best Player to Wear #3?

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Originally Posted by Mattsanity View Post
Without AI, the Sixers were going to win less than 10 games that season. With AI, they went to the finals.
That Philadelphia team was built like that by design, not by happenstance. Philly knew that after a few years of trying to make Allen Iverson a point guard and putting conventional scorers around him did not work, the only way that franchise was going to be successful with Iverson as the centerpiece is to surround him with guys who didn't want (or have the ability) to score.

Eric Snow became the starting point guard in 1998-99 when Larry Brown made Iverson a shooting guard and he needed a tall point guard to check the other team's shooting guard.

Aaron McKie and Theo Ratliff came from a trade with Detroit to move out Jerry Stackhouse, because Stackhouse chafed playing with Iverson. Stackhouse was clearly a better player than Ratliff and McKie at that point, but those players were brought in because they were defensive-minded role players.

Tyrone Hill came over in a trade from Milwaukee in 1999 in a deal involving second-year player Tim Thomas, another player seen as a promising offensive player.

The pattern is pretty obvious. Philadelphia knew it had an elite scorer and unique talent in Iverson, but his style of play and ego made it difficult to put a conventional team around him. The 76ers organization knew that if it was going to build a franchise around Iverson, it only could work with a team around him that knew it wasn't going to get a lot of offensive plays run for them and didn't chafe at Iverson gunning at low shooting clips.
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Old 12-27-2012, 08:40 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Re: Best Player to Wear #3?

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Originally Posted by Basel View Post
I'm skipping #2 because it's quite obviously Moses Malone. Nobody else is really in contention. #3 will be a lot more interesting:
Moses Malone wore No. 2 for only nine seasons out of a 20-year career, and for roughly half of that time he was past his prime.

You may want to consider opening up that competition, considering fellow hall of famer Alex English wore No. 2 for 12 seasons and was the leading scorer in the '80s wearing that number. Also, Mitch Richmond wore No. 2 for the bulk of his career, including his All-Star seasons in Sacramento.
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Old 12-27-2012, 09:14 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Re: Best Player to Wear #3?

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Originally Posted by Mattsanity View Post
Don't get it twisted, Wade is better. But did this amount of hate towards AI exist in 2001? I think not. it's pure revisionist crap.
yeah, no - Iverson was always a controversial subject: the 76ers tried to trade him 2000 because he was having issues with his coach and he would have been a piston if Matt Gieger hadnt exercised a no trade clause and he was getting shit media wide for "it's practice man, practice" when did that happen? 2002? and the 2004 olympic team? that was in what? 2004?

and like I said read the thread - I brought up how abysmally weak the eastern conference was during AI's time on like the first page and dont even begin to tell me that he had any right to Shaq's MVP award in 2001 because that was one of the biggest travesties in the history of ever

he was a clock eating ball pounding chucker, always

and Im still waiting on the specifics regarding his influence because it sure as shit wasnt because he made the game more interesting to watch and he's not even a little close to Magic/Larry/Mike in terms of making an impression on the public

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Old 12-27-2012, 09:31 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Re: Best Player to Wear #3?

Allen Iverson's "influence" was that he was emblematic of the NBA backlash in the post-Michael Jordan era. He was one of the people (along with Latrell Sprewell for the P.J. Carlesimo choking incident) mostly associated with the league being perceived as becoming too "street" to appeal to mainstream audiences.
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Old 12-27-2012, 09:51 AM   #52 (permalink)
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Re: Best Player to Wear #3?

maybe but I dont suppose that's what he meant - and someone else said the same thing about his influence earlier in the thread without specifics and I dont want to be dense but I dont get what either of them mean
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Old 12-27-2012, 10:18 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Re: Best Player to Wear #3?

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maybe but I dont suppose that's what he meant - and someone else said the same thing about his influence earlier in the thread without specifics and I dont want to be dense but I dont get what either of them mean
When I hear other people try to make a statement about Allen Iverson's "influence" on the NBA and pop culture, I get the same general, unfounded response that you got with no explanation.

The reality is closer to what I said -- his influence was really the backlash people had about the NBA being perceived as becoming "too street" for mainstream appeal.
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Old 12-27-2012, 10:50 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Re: Best Player to Wear #3?

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Old 12-27-2012, 10:55 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Re: Best Player to Wear #3?

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and like I said read the thread - I brought up how abysmally weak the eastern conference was during AI's time on like the first page and dont even begin to tell me that he had any right to Shaq's MVP award in 2001 because that was one of the biggest travesties in the history of ever
I've heard people bashing the early 2000's East for years. it's nothing new.

It wasn't a travesty. The 2001 race was a coin flip. Shaq may have deserved it, but so did AI.

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and Im still waiting on the specifics regarding his influence because it sure as shit wasnt because he made the game more interesting to watch and he's not even a little close to Magic/Larry/Mike in terms of making an impression on the public
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When I hear other people try to make a statement about Allen Iverson's "influence" on the NBA and pop culture, I get the same general, unfounded response that you got with no explanation.

The reality is closer to what I said -- his influence was really the backlash people had about the NBA being perceived as becoming "too street" for mainstream appeal.
and since you're begging to know how he was influential, his reebok shoes reached record sale numbers during his heyday.

and AI is a lock for the hall of fame BTW. All season MVP's make it.
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:02 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Re: Best Player to Wear #3?

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and since you're begging to know how he was influential, his reebok shoes reached record sale numbers.

and AI is a lock for the hall of fame BTW. All season MVP's make it.
Selling shoes doesn't make you a cultural icon. It means Reebok had a popular product endorsed by a star player. If sales is the metric to measure cultural impact or critical merit, then Britney Spears must be one of the greatest singers ever.

No one ever doubted Allen Iverson would be a hall of fame candidate. The question was not about his individual level of play, but the context of his play in the framework of a team sport.
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:11 AM   #57 (permalink)
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Re: Best Player to Wear #3?

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Selling shoes doesn't make you a cultural icon. It means Reebok had a popular product endorsed by a star player. If sales is the metric to measure cultural impact or critical merit, then Britney Spears must be one of the greatest singers ever.


LOL right.......

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No one ever doubted Allen Iverson would be a hall of fame candidate.
you should ask e-monk about that.
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:11 AM   #58 (permalink)
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Re: Best Player to Wear #3?

Eh, it depends on where you were and how old you were during Iverson's apex. I was in high school in a small city during the early part of last decade, and Iverson and McGrady were by far the two most popular NBA players among people my age. I get where he's coming from with the cultural impact part of the argument.
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:11 AM   #59 (permalink)
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Chris Paul could finish his career ahead of Wade and Iverson if he gets the clippers a chip.
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:34 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Re: Best Player to Wear #3?

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Eh, it depends on where you were and how old you were during Iverson's apex. I was in high school in a small city during the early part of last decade, and Iverson and McGrady were by far the two most popular NBA players among people my age. I get where he's coming from with the cultural impact part of the argument.
I saw Allen Iverson's entire career, from high school into the NBA (and as an adult, no less). No one is saying Iverson was not a prominent NBA player. But that is totally different from trying to claim he had a cultural impact on the sport in terms of increased viewership from multiple demographics, elevated brand awareness and perceived excellence and dominance across the board to the point of being seen as a universal influence and reference point (see Michael Jordan).

The point is you can make a more credible argument by citing concrete facts than citing unfounded hyperbole based on the fact he was a popular player with certain segments (not to mention it wasn't like Iverson was universally considered the best player in the NBA, unless we're now acting like people such as Shaquille O'Neal and Kobe Bryant didn't play in that period).
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