Avery Johnson fired

[Najee]

Originally Posted by GrandKenyon6

That's not true at all. Ownership ran that team into the ground, not Frank.

The Nets won in spite of Byron. There was a reason Kidd and Martin ran him out of town. He was an awful, awful coach.

And the best team the Nets ever had was the 2004 team coached by Frank. They just got a bad break with injuries in the playoffs that year.

And despite having the same team and adding Vince Carter to the mix, the Nets never got past the second round of the playoffs with Lawrence Frank as the head coach. So explain how New Jersey was never more than second-round fodder and typically 42 games or less with Frank and the same cast (plus Carter) "in spite of Byron Scott?"

[e-monk]

the reason that the players got tired of Scott is the same reason that magic and company got tired of riley (scott is a riley protege) he was an intense hardcore disciplinarian which works in short bursts but only

[27dresses]

Originally Posted by Najee

And despite having the same team and adding Vince Carter to the mix, the Nets never got past the second round of the playoffs with Lawrence Frank as the head coach. So explain how New Jersey was never more than second-round fodder and typically 42 games or less with Frank and the same cast (plus Carter) "in spite of Byron Scott?"

Having the same team?????????? Kenyon, Kittles, Rodney Rogers, Lucious Harris and Aaron Williams were gone by the time Carter got there, and Carter is a dog. Kidd started the season injured and wasn't the same player when he came back, and RJ played only 33 games that season.

The next season (05-06) they won 49 games and lost to the eventual Champs, the Heat, in the 2nd rd.

[27dresses]

Originally Posted by e-monk

the reason that the players got tired of Scott is the same reason that magic and company got tired of riley (scott is a riley protege) he was an intense hardcore disciplinarian which works in short bursts but only

Scott was a lazy coach. And as far as disciplinarian, there wasn't a damned thing he said that RJ, Kenyon and especially Kidd listened to.

[27dresses]

Originally Posted by e-monk

how do you know Scott was lazy? that's not his reputation

Were you following the Nets during Byron's tenure there?

[e-monk]

Originally Posted by 27dresses

Were you following the Nets during Byron's tenure there?

sources - I asked the question - the players didnt like him is all I can recall and it seemed to have something to do with his reputation as a Riley disciple - you're the first person I've ever heard describe him as lazy so the burden of proof is on you chap

[Najee]

Originally Posted by 27dresses

Having the same team?????????? Kenyon, Kittles, Rodney Rogers, Lucious Harris and Aaron Williams were gone by the time Carter got there, and Carter is a dog. Kidd started the season injured and wasn't the same player when he came back, and RJ played only 33 games that season.

The next season (05-06) they won 49 games and lost to the eventual Champs, the Heat, in the 2nd rd.

2005-06 was the season Vince Carter averaged 24.2 points per game, so you can't call him a dog and then praise a season where he was the team's leading scorer (and possibly having his final all-star level season) at the same time.

Kenyon Martin is really the only major player of consequence you named. Richard Jefferson also turned in arguably his best NBA seasons after that time, so his development offsets a good amount of what the other guys brought. Kittles' career was essentially over by 2003-04 and it's fair to say Carter was better than Kittles.

So really, the only guy of note New Jersey missed was Martin for his defense, and he was traded after the 2003-04 season (so much for taking his antics for credibility).

[Najee]

Originally Posted by 27dresses

Scott was a lazy coach. And as far as disciplinarian, there wasn't a damned thing he said that RJ, Kenyon and especially Kidd listened to.

I personally would like to hear what you think Lawrence Frank brought to the table for New Jersey. I find it interesting on this subject, the discussion is more about "Scott was not a good coach" despite Scott leading this moribund franchise to back-to-back Finals appearances. I haven't heard a response of what Frank brought to the table while as Nets coach.

[27dresses]

Originally Posted by Najee

I personally would like to hear what you think Lawrence Frank brought to the table for New Jersey. I find it interesting on this subject, the discussion is more about "Scott was not a good coach" despite Scott leading this moribund franchise to back-to-back Finals appearances. I haven't heard a response of what Frank brought to the table while as Nets coach.

Frank brought to the table the same thing as he did as Asst. Coach, which was defense.

What Frank had over Scott was the Kidd backed him, as opposed to Jason's wanting Scott fired in the middle of '02-'03 season.

[27dresses]

Originally Posted by Najee

2005-06 was the season Vince Carter averaged 24.2 points per game, so you can't call him a dog and then praise a season where he was the team's leading scorer (and possibly having his final all-star level season) at the same time.

Kenyon Martin is really the only major player of consequence you named. Richard Jefferson also turned in arguably his best NBA seasons after that time, so his development offsets a good amount of what the other guys brought. Kittles' career was essentially over by 2003-04 and it's fair to say Carter was better than Kittles.

So really, the only guy of note New Jersey missed was Martin for his defense, and he was traded after the 2003-04 season (so much for taking his antics for credibility). New Jersey became a better team offensively, in the process.

Don't care what Carter avgd anywhere, or whether he was an All-Star, he is one of the biggest dogs the NBA has ever seen.

Kittles, was a good scorer. Kittles and Kenyon were the heart of the Nets defense.

Harris, Rogers and Aaron were the bench.

When Carter came, the Nets running game left. Many fans love Carter. I didn't care about him much until he became a Net. He had two good seasons with the Nets, but his dog-like nature was apparent. Then he went into full dog mode, idiot Ratner re-signed him, and Kidd wanted out. Then Nets traded Jefferson, and Ratner wanted Vince out. The End.

[Najee]

Originally Posted by 27dresses

What Frank had over Scott was the Kidd backed him, as opposed to Jason's wanting Scott fired in the middle of '02-'03 season.

And before his current role of acclaimed elder statesman, Jason Kidd was considered a problem child/drama maker for much of his NBA career. That was the reason Dallas got rid of him the first time around and Phoenix shipped him to New Jersey.

And once again, how did that work out for New Jersey? One prima donna was traded in the offseason and the other had his typical drama which ended up with the team being worse.

Originally Posted by 27dresses

Kittles, was a good scorer. Kittles and Kenyon were the heart of the Nets defense.

Harris, Rogers and Aaron were the bench.

Kerry Kittles' career was over by 2003-04; he only played 11 more games (with the Los Angeles Clippers in 2004-05). By any matter, New Jersey was going to need a replacement. Like it or not, Vince Carter was a major upgrade over whoever was manning the shooting guard position at the time. And yes, he was an upgrade over Kittles.

[27dresses]

Originally Posted by Najee

And before his current role of acclaimed elder statesman, Jason Kidd was considered a problem child/drama maker for much of his NBA career. That was the reason Dallas got rid of him the first time around and Phoenix shipped him to New Jersey.

And once again, how did that work out for New Jersey? One prima donna was traded in the offseason and the other had his typical drama which ended up with the team being worse.



Kerry Kittles' career was over by 2003-04; he only played 11 more games (with the Los Angeles Clippers in 2004-05). By any matter, New Jersey was going to need a replacement. Like it or not, Vince Carter was a major upgrade over whoever was manning the shooting guard position at the time. And yes, he was an upgrade over Kittles.

Kidd ran the Nets until he left.

When Carter got to Nets ('04-'05), he was not added to the mix. Kittles and Kenyon, Harris and Rogers were gone, Kidd was injured then RJ got injured. What mix are you talking about?

'05-'06 Nets won 49 games because the team was healthy, and they had added two good defenders in Cliff Robinson amd Jacque Vaughn (in '04-'05 they had Ron Mercer, Rodney Buford, and Jabari Smith). And Krstic became a player. Lost in the 2nd rd to '06 Champ Heat.

'06-'07 Carter went full mutt. He rolled over in the playoffs vs. Raptors (who had homecourt advantage), then vs. the Cavs. Nets lost in 6. Cavs went to the Finals.

Ratner re-signed Carter, wouldn't extend Kidd. Kidd got headaches, and got traded.

Ratner soon regretted re-signing Carter. Frank had little to do with any of it.

And none of that changes the fact that Scott was a bad, lazy coach when he was with the Nets.

[e-monk]

so no sources, just you said so? dubious

[27dresses]

Originally Posted by e-monk

so no sources, just you said so? dubious

Believe what you like.

I lived through it.

[e-monk]

Originally Posted by 27dresses

Believe what you like.

I lived through it.

so no sources - Im an old time Lakers fan and have followed Scotty's career with some interest so guess what? you're wrong and you cant prove otherwise apparently so game set me