If Mike D'Antoni is such an offensive genius....

[R-Star]

Originally Posted by TucsonClip

Im not saying Dwight has been good at all.

I said he is the only one COACHING anyone on defense. You can see him explaining the rotations to everyone else, but that doesnt change the fact that the Lakers are terrible on D.

Im saying hes doing more defensive coaching than D'Antoni is, or anyone else from the looks of it.

Everyone probably is too busy laughing at him.

I've seen him on the side with his arm around Nash where hes all "Ok Steve, and then what you want to do is....." and I'm sure Nash is saying in his head "Are you ****ing kidding me?"

Its a joke. Maybe Dwight should concern himself with actually hustling back on the play before he tries to tell a point guard who's been in the league since before Dwight hit puberty how to play defense.

[TucsonClip]

Originally Posted by R-Star

Everyone probably is too busy laughing at him.

I've seen him on the side with his arm around Nash where hes all "Ok Steve, and then what you want to do is....." and I'm sure Nash is saying in his head "Are you ****ing kidding me?"

Nash has to be thinking, first it was Shaq and now Dwight? WTF did I do?

Its called karma Steve. Karma.

[XxIrvingxX]

Originally Posted by R-Star

Everyone probably is too busy laughing at him.

I've seen him on the side with his arm around Nash where hes all "Ok Steve, and then what you want to do is....." and I'm sure Nash is saying in his head "Are you ****ing kidding me?"

Its a joke. Maybe Dwight should concern himself with actually hustling back on the play before he tries to tell a point guard who's been in the league since before Dwight hit puberty how to play defense.

Why? Someone should've told Nash how to play defense a long time ago, you have to start at some point. Why not start now?

[R-Star]

Originally Posted by XxIrvingxX

Why? Someone should've told Nash how to play defense a long time ago, you have to start at some point. Why not start now?

You seem to not be following.

The complaint was Dwight doesn't even hustle back on defense this year, so he shouldn't be telling anyone how to do anything D related.

Second, how the hell is Dwight Howard going to explain to Steve Nash how to guard other point guards? Playing a defensive anchor is worlds different from defending as a guard. They aren't at all similar.


You'll get no argument from me that Nash stinks on D. But Dwight is not the guy to be talking right now.

[Wilt_The_Stilt]

I think this talking to Nash thing is being blown out of proportion.

I agree Dwight has not been the same but unless he was chewing Nash out (which it didn't look like to me) then I don't see what the big deal is.

They were probably discussing how to guard the pick and roll or rotations. And that is what I would prefer versus having them not communicating.

The bigger point that Dwight has not been himself is correct though.

[R-Star]

Originally Posted by Wilt_The_Stilt

I think this talking to Nash thing is being blown out of proportion.

I agree Dwight has not been the same but unless he was chewing Nash out (which it didn't look like to me) then I don't see what the big deal is.

They were probably discussing how to guard the pick and roll or rotations. And that is what I would prefer versus having them not communicating.

The bigger point that Dwight has not been himself is correct though.

You've watched the team a hell of a lot more than me though, and you know the real issue here just like I do.


Dwight isn't sluggish due to not being 100% game shape. He isn't having trouble keeping up with his man, or using his athleticism like hes used to. No. That's not the issue. The issue comes from him deciding hes not going to run back on a play to play D, or that he's too busy glaring and arguing with a ref for a call against him to pick up on the play. Or he's just smiling off into the crowd and not paying attention.

Its 100% a mental problem with Dwight, not physical. People keep saying "Well when Dwight is 100%, watch out!" hes been 100% out there. You've seen it. I've seen it. Sure he has some sort of injury now, but you know what I'm saying.


And I know that's kind of out of nowhere in response to your post. I just find it odd its hardly ever talked about.

No one ever seems to want to talk about it.

[King Sancho Fantastic]

If I'm the defensive anchor you'd better believe I'm gonna be telling the guards where I want them to funnel their assignment seeing as its most likely gonna be me who's getting dunked on if they don't do the job right.

[Hyperion]

Originally Posted by XxIrvingxX

No, it didn't. What turned him into a near all star player was the increased playing time he got as a result of Amare being injured, and having Steve Nash on the team sure helped an awful lot (although to be fair Boris did have an impressive assist average in his first year in Phoenix).

So, it's not D'Antoni's system that allowed Diaw to flourish but it's D'Antoni's system that's holding back Pau? Sounds to me like this is a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario. I am getting the feeling that it won't matter what D'Antoni does, he'll be a bad coach in your opinion.

Originally Posted by TucsonClip

Im not saying Dwight has been good at all.

I said he is the only one COACHING anyone on defense. You can see him explaining the rotations to everyone else, but that doesnt change the fact that the Lakers are terrible on D.

Im saying hes doing more defensive coaching than D'Antoni is, or anyone else from the looks of it.

He's not in any position to coach anyone on defense. Nash isn't a bad defender, he's just not athletic enough to stay in front of the quicker players in the NBA. At 39, that's almost everyone. That's understood. He has to zone his man and force him to shoot over the top or funnel him to help defense. That's why defense is a team game. Anyone who thinks one man can shut down an all star (other than the Lebron) is a fool. You guys act like these guys are defensive failures when a guy averaging 20ppg scores 30 in a game. Guess what? He's good enough to score 20 every night, he's good enough to score 30. There is no help defense on the Lakers. No one is stopping the ball and that defensive assignment falls directly on Gasol and Howard. I've seen Howard late on rotations over and over. Hell, that's why he flagrantly fouled that guy because he was late to his spot.

[R-Star]

Originally Posted by King Sancho Fantastic

If I'm the defensive anchor you'd better believe I'm gonna be telling the guards where I want them to funnel their assignment seeing as its most likely gonna be me who's getting dunked on if they don't do the job right.

You sure like going out of your way to defend Dwight.

[R-Star]

Originally Posted by Hyperion

So, it's not D'Antoni's system that allowed Diaw to flourish but it's D'Antoni's system that's holding back Pau? Sounds to me like this is a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario. I am getting the feeling that it won't matter what D'Antoni does, he'll be a bad coach in your opinion.


He's not in any position to coach anyone on defense. Nash isn't a bad defender, he's just not athletic enough to stay in front of the quicker players in the NBA. At 39, that's almost everyone. That's understood. He has to zone his man and force him to shoot over the top or funnel him to help defense. That's why defense is a team game. Anyone who thinks one man can shut down an all star (other than the Lebron) is a fool. You guys act like these guys are defensive failures when a guy averaging 20ppg scores 30 in a game. Guess what? He's good enough to score 20 every night, he's good enough to score 30. There is no help defense on the Lakers. No one is stopping the ball and that defensive assignment falls directly on Gasol and Howard. I've seen Howard late on rotations over and over. Hell, that's why he flagrantly fouled that guy because he was late to his spot.

Paul George shuts dudes down....sometimes

[Wilt_The_Stilt]

Originally Posted by R-Star

You've watched the team a hell of a lot more than me though, and you know the real issue here just like I do.


Dwight isn't sluggish due to not being 100% game shape. He isn't having trouble keeping up with his man, or using his athleticism like hes used to. No. That's not the issue. The issue comes from him deciding hes not going to run back on a play to play D, or that he's too busy glaring and arguing with a ref for a call against him to pick up on the play. Or he's just smiling off into the crowd and not paying attention.

Its 100% a mental problem with Dwight, not physical. People keep saying "Well when Dwight is 100%, watch out!" hes been 100% out there. You've seen it. I've seen it. Sure he has some sort of injury now, but you know what I'm saying.


And I know that's kind of out of nowhere in response to your post. I just find it odd its hardly ever talked about.

No one ever seems to want to talk about it.

Fair enough. No question he isn't playing to the level fans want/expect. I just hope he and the rest of the team turn it around. At least make the playoffs for crying out loud.

[R-Star]

Originally Posted by Wilt_The_Stilt

Fair enough. No question he isn't playing to the level fans want/expect. I just hope he and the rest of the team turn it around. At least make the playoffs for crying out loud.

If you guys don't make the playoffs I hope some of the blame goes around.

All its been so far is "Kobe is shooting too much." or "The coach sucks!" or "Pau stinks, trade him!". You never hear Dwight getting much shit over the losses.

Makes me angry.

[King Sancho Fantastic]

Originally Posted by R-Star

You sure like going out of your way to defend Dwight.

You sure like going out of your way to absolve Pau as if he hasn't been playing this way for the last few years. Stop making excuses for him. I don't give a rats ass if he isn't being used right in the offense. Jordan Hill is outplaying him without a single play being called for him. Truth is our offense is fine. It's our defense that's horrible and Pau is certainly a culprit along with Nash, Kobe and yes even Dwight too. Out of those 4 player, 3 are are doing fine on the offensive side of the ball. Pau isn't giving anything on either end which is why I think he needs to be moved. That and because hes making 19 million. If we could move Metta I'd say do that too.

[XxIrvingxX]

Originally Posted by Hyperion

So, it's not D'Antoni's system that allowed Diaw to flourish but it's D'Antoni's system that's holding back Pau? Sounds to me like this is a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario. I am getting the feeling that it won't matter what D'Antoni does, he'll be a bad coach in your opinion.

When he continues to go and do the same thing, then yes, he's a bad coach. This is my problem with D'Antoni. He doesn't change up what he does when it's clearly failing. He has to at some point take responsability for what's going on and he doesn't, and you can tell just by how much he doesn't change what he's doing to realize that's how he feels.

And no, D'Antoni's system had nothing to do with Diaw having a good season that year. I'm sure having Nash play alongside him did, as did Amare being injured and resulting in Diaw having more time to be more productive, but he would've had a good season with or without Mike's system. How do I know this? Because as soon as he joined a different team, his scoring numbers went back up, to the point where he was averaging more points per game than he was in his first year with Phoenix, which I'm sure is the season you were referring to. Granted, his FG% went down, but not having someone like Nash alongside him probably had something to do with it.

Now I will say this again, Mike's system isn't the only reason for Pau's struggles, but the role that he gives Pau in the game definitely plays a part in it.

Originally Posted by Hyperion

He's not in any position to coach anyone on defense. Nash isn't a bad defender, he's just not athletic enough to stay in front of the quicker players in the NBA.

Nash isn't a bad defender...you're joking right?

Dude, the guy who recruited Nash into college even said after watching footage of him that he was, and I quote "the worst defender I have ever seen". That's not something a basketball coach says about someone who's problem on defense is that he "can't keep up". There are ways were people are able to work around with that. Anyone who watches Nash play and has been for a long time like I have know that Nash doesn't just have the athleticism to keep up, he also is just a horrible defender in general. His defensive awareness is horrible, and I've never seen someone not give a shit at all as much as Nash does.

Originally Posted by Hyperion

At 39, that's almost everyone. That's understood.

But when you consider the fact that his college recruiter was calling him the worst defender ever at such a young age, it's obvious Nash being a horrible defender isn't something that started happening recently.

And you don't just magically lose all your defensive abilities at old age when you were an amazing defender in your prime. You become worse, yes, but you don't become absolutely worthless on defense. Not a single elite defender in NBA has become utterly worthless like Nash on defense at old age.

Originally Posted by Hyperion

You guys act like these guys are defensive failures when a guy averaging 20ppg scores 30 in a game.

Okay, normally I would respond to this, but first I want to clarify that you know what you just said there. Come on Hyperion, you're better than this.

Originally Posted by Hyperion

There is no help defense on the Lakers. No one is stopping the ball and that defensive assignment falls directly on Gasol and Howard. I've seen Howard late on rotations over and over. Hell, that's why he flagrantly fouled that guy because he was late to his spot.

It wasn't like this when Mike Brown was coaching. Well, okay, there were times were Howard was late on rotations but per the five games it didn't happen anywhere close to the amount of times it has happened per every five games under D'Antoni (that's actually just a guess I honestly have no clue).

[Hyperion]

Then he did this in college

Nash scored 19 points and held Bruin point guard Cameron Dollar to zero. After the game Nash walked past Davey and winked. Not bad for the worst defensive player ever.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...48/2/index.htm

Oh no! He got better! Anyways there is no point in arguing preconceptions. D'Antoni is a bad coach because he didn't have a best defensive team in the league and is a bad offensive coach even though he coached 5 of the best offenses of all time. At this level you're not teaching these guys anything new, you're implementing systems. D'Antoni's system is predicated on ball movement. The lakers are saddled with three starters who don't pass and one who won't do anything other than shoot spot up jumpers and then complain that he's only shooting spot up jumpers.