If Mike D'Antoni is such an offensive genius....

[XxIrvingxX]

Originally Posted by JBKB

Kobe misses too many shots. If Kobe stops trying to be number one in scoring, then the Lakers may actually start winning. How many times have game analysts posted "When Kobe scores X-many points, the Lakers lose this many times." : )

First off quit putting smiling faces at the end it's weirding me out, second, explain the 2005-2007 Lakers please.

[R-Star]

Its his thing. Smilies are his thing.

He needs a thing.

[XxIrvingxX]

Originally Posted by R-Star

Its his thing. Smilies are his thing.

He needs a thing.

Don't we all?

[R-Star]

Originally Posted by XxIrvingxX

Don't we all?

Yes. But what is your thing?

I have a thing ;(


That's a guy winking at you, and frowning at the same time. Whys he winking and frowning at the same time? Is he crazy? None of your ****ing business ;(

[Jace]

My thing is my Rachel Nichols-esque, upper-body shuffle at the end of each post. I'm sure you all have noticed.

[XxIrvingxX]

Originally Posted by R-Star

Yes. But what is your thing?

I have a thing ;(


That's a guy winking at you, and frowning at the same time. Whys he winking and frowning at the same time? Is he crazy? None of your ****ing business ;(

[JBKB]

Originally Posted by XxIrvingxX

How does this prove that offense is more important???

Well, if defense is so great, then how come the best defensive teams can't hold teams down to 40 points?

If defense is so great, then why can a 0.176 team like the Wizards average 89 points per game?

Here's an extreme example: Let's say that two teams have superb defenses such that neither team can score any baskets. The game would go on for eternity since the NBA won't allow tie games. The only way for the game to end would be for some team to develep a superior offense.

At this point you may be tempted to say "Yeah, but what if a team can break down their opponents' defense." Well, guess what, it takes great offense to break down a great defense. : )

Now, I'm not saying defense doesn't affect the game at all. It does, but only in a small way in my opinion. I personally think defense is too overrated, and that offense is far more superior.

Michael Jordan is far more credited for his offense than defense. Just saying! : )

[TucsonClip]

[XxIrvingxX]

Originally Posted by JBKB

Well, if defense is so great, then how come the best defensive teams can't hold teams down to 40 points?

Because the game is 48 minutes long. These are pros, the best basketball players in the world, competing against each other. 40 points is something high school players or middle school players do. This is a completely different scenario. Michael Jordan would literally laugh at your face right now if you made such a statement.

Originally Posted by JBKB

If defense is so great, then why can a 0.176 team like the Wizards average 89 points per game?

Averaging 89 points per game is not something to be proud of in the NBA. That's all I'm going to say regarding that because I still can't believe you're actually trying to argue this and use that as your example.

Originally Posted by JBKB

Here's an extreme example: Let's say that two teams have superb defenses such that neither team can score any baskets. The game would go on for eternity since the NBA won't allow tie games. The only way for the game to end would be for some team to develep a superior offense.

That's not an extreme example. That's an unrealistic idea that doesn't even deserve an answer. You have to at least have somewhat realistic situations that could possibly happen. Two teams could play against each other and be the detroit pistons from the bad boys era and from the Ben Wallace era both combined, sooner or later one team is going to eventually score. Again these are pros, these aren't six year olds playing a freaking pick up game at a elementary school recess field.

Okay now lets say that team A is leading the game 70 to lets say...50, and there's 8 minutes left in the game. Team A suddenly can't score, and team B goes on a big scoring run, and cuts the lead to two, and there's 5 seconds left. What does team A have to do in order to win? Play defense, because of they don't, team B could come away with the win. Offense may be able to get you that game winning shot, but defense can prevent you from even needing to be in a situation like that. But the thing is, shots will eventually fall in, but sometimes they will miss. Defense is a consistent basis, it's something you can always rely on. If you're cold, then you have to stray away from shooting. You don't have to do that with defense. It will always be there for you.

Originally Posted by JBKB

At this point you may be tempted to say "Yeah, but what if a team can break down their opponents' defense." Well, guess what, it takes great offense to break down a great defense. : )

That still doesn't prove anything. I could just as easily counter that with "it takes great defense to stop great offense." But instead I'll go with a scenario.

The LA lakers in 2004 were an incredible offensive team. Despite their problems in the season, they were still great on offense. They then went up against the Detroit Pistons, who where below average at best offensively, but their defense was legendary. The Lakers had no answer for them. No matter how hard they tried, apart from one overtime quarter were the Lakers completely outscored the Pistons and stole the game away, the Pistons were dismantling the Lakers, not with their offense, but with their defense. They went on to win the series in what many consider to be one of the most lopsided finals series in NBA history, and is famously known as the five game sweep.

Now once again, defense is what won that finals series for Detroit. But then you look at the list of teams that have won the finals, and off the top of my head, I can't think of a single team that won the NBA finals with little to no defense. But I can think of a few who won with amazing defense and barely any offense.

Originally Posted by JBKB

Now, I'm not saying defense doesn't affect the game at all. It does, but only in a small way in my opinion. I personally think defense is too overrated, and that offense is far more superior.

How? How does defense only affect the game in a small way?! Do you watch the game of basketball at all? Look at what the Chicago Bulls are doing right now. They are without their best offensive player, Derrick Rose, and yet they are still doing very well. Why? Because they play great team defense. Now look at the Lakers. They just snapped their six game losing streak, but how was that possible? Because they were able to hold the Cavs to under a 100 points. In other words, THEY PLAYED DEFENSE. If you don't play defense, your team won't get anywhere in this league, and that is a fact. You can get away with having barley any offense, the Detroit Pistons have proved that, but you can't get away with playing no defense, and the Lakers are learning that the hard way.

Originally Posted by JBKB

Michael Jordan is far more credited for his offense than defense. Just saying! : )

Yea, uh huh, and I'm almost sure that if he wasn't one of the best perimeter defenders, people wouldn't say he's one of the all time greatest.

[e-monk]

Originally Posted by JBKB

Please tell me my agenda here.

well you're basically dr drippy using a new user name and trying to sound serious with your same old drivel right?

[Hyperion]

Can't be, his logic is too sound.

[Jace]

^Relatively, of course. He types better too.

[R-Star]

Originally Posted by e-monk

well you're basically dr drippy using a new user name and trying to sound serious with your same old drivel right?

Dr Drippy. I like it.

[e-monk]

Originally Posted by JBKB

Well, if defense is so great, then how come the best defensive teams can't hold teams down to 40 points?

here's a simple illustration

the Lakers are a top 5 offensive team by most statistical measures and they are a bottom 10 defensive team by most statistical measures - they have a losing record

now pick a different subject as this one has been QED'd decisively - good day to you sir

[JBKB]

Originally Posted by XxIrvingxX

Because the game is 48 minutes long. These are pros, the best basketball players in the world, competing against each other. 40 points is something high school players or middle school players do. This is a completely different scenario. Michael Jordan would literally laugh at your face right now if you made such a statement.



Averaging 89 points per game is not something to be proud of in the NBA. That's all I'm going to say regarding that because I still can't believe you're actually trying to argue this and use that as your example.



That's not an extreme example. That's an unrealistic idea that doesn't even deserve an answer. You have to at least have somewhat realistic situations that could possibly happen. Two teams could play against each other and be the detroit pistons from the bad boys era and from the Ben Wallace era both combined, sooner or later one team is going to eventually score. Again these are pros, these aren't six year olds playing a freaking pick up game at a elementary school recess field.

Okay now lets say that team A is leading the game 70 to lets say...50, and there's 8 minutes left in the game. Team A suddenly can't score, and team B goes on a big scoring run, and cuts the lead to two, and there's 5 seconds left. What does team A have to do in order to win? Play defense, because of they don't, team B could come away with the win. Offense may be able to get you that game winning shot, but defense can prevent you from even needing to be in a situation like that. But the thing is, shots will eventually fall in, but sometimes they will miss. Defense is a consistent basis, it's something you can always rely on. If you're cold, then you have to stray away from shooting. You don't have to do that with defense. It will always be there for you.



That still doesn't prove anything. I could just as easily counter that with "it takes great defense to stop great offense." But instead I'll go with a scenario.

The LA lakers in 2004 were an incredible offensive team. Despite their problems in the season, they were still great on offense. They then went up against the Detroit Pistons, who where below average at best offensively, but their defense was legendary. The Lakers had no answer for them. No matter how hard they tried, apart from one overtime quarter were the Lakers completely outscored the Pistons and stole the game away, the Pistons were dismantling the Lakers, not with their offense, but with their defense. They went on to win the series in what many consider to be one of the most lopsided finals series in NBA history, and is famously known as the five game sweep.

Now once again, defense is what won that finals series for Detroit. But then you look at the list of teams that have won the finals, and off the top of my head, I can't think of a single team that won the NBA finals with little to no defense. But I can think of a few who won with amazing defense and barely any offense.



How? How does defense only affect the game in a small way?! Do you watch the game of basketball at all? Look at what the Chicago Bulls are doing right now. They are without their best offensive player, Derrick Rose, and yet they are still doing very well. Why? Because they play great team defense. Now look at the Lakers. They just snapped their six game losing streak, but how was that possible? Because they were able to hold the Cavs to under a 100 points. In other words, THEY PLAYED DEFENSE. If you don't play defense, your team won't get anywhere in this league, and that is a fact. You can get away with having barley any offense, the Detroit Pistons have proved that, but you can't get away with playing no defense, and the Lakers are learning that the hard way.



Yea, uh huh, and I'm almost sure that if he wasn't one of the best perimeter defenders, people wouldn't say he's one of the all time greatest.

Well, I continue to believe that defense is overrated, and in most cases a waste of precious time. I believe coaches should direct more attention on offense, perhaps 80% offense/20% defense, or even 85% offense/15% defense.

The beauty of offense is that your options are almost unlimited, which I'll try to explain later in this post. Defense is LIMITED. The NBA probably has far more rules and restrictions on defense than they do on offense.

On defense, the slightest contact is whistled as foul. You have the defensive 3-second to watch out for, you have so many restrictions on the extent to which you can screen, etc.

Offense has very few limitations: Don't run out of bounds with the ball, no charging, don't travel, and a few more that are simple to control.

What if players took half-court shots, and hit them consistently? That alone makes defense nearly obsolete. Can you imagine how well the offense would open up if players on a team could consistently hit half-court shots? Why not even set picks before you even cross the half-court line? Also, why waste so much energy trying to reach the paint? Just hit your 3-pointers consistently and drive to the paint when the opportunity is guaranteed.

Why do you even have to have a 1,2,3,4,5 spot? Why not just have all point/shooting gaurds on the floor who are excellent three-point shooters? Spread the three-point arc and take any wide open three. If no one is double-teamed, find the matchup where a guard can outrun his opponent and reach the paint with ease.

The options for offense are unlimited. The options for defense are limited, which explains why the whistle is blown far more for defensive penalties than offensive penalties.