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Old 01-09-2013, 10:20 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Re: NBA double standard....yeah deal with it.

Even right now the Magic are 18th in points allowed. They are a good defensive squad, they were a good defensive squad with and without Dwight. Throw in the fact Stan Van is one of the best defensive coaches out there, and it takes a lot of weight away from your "Dwight is arguably the best defender of all time" argument.

You put Roy Hibbert in that spot and nothing changes defensively. Same with a guy like Chandler, and a handful of others.
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:22 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Re: NBA double standard....yeah deal with it.

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Originally Posted by Bogg View Post
Reggie was an excellent player, but he gets overrated because he was the primary offensive threat on a very good ensemble cast and made some very clutch shots. Even if you think that Kobe only would have averaged in the low twenties if he hit the tail end of his peak in the nineties, Kobe used to play excellent defense, which Reggie never even approached.
Reggie was an average defender.


**** you bro. **** you.
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:29 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Re: NBA double standard....yeah deal with it.

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Originally Posted by R-Star View Post
Even right now the Magic are 18th in points allowed. They are a good defensive squad, they were a good defensive squad with and without Dwight. Throw in the fact Stan Van is one of the best defensive coaches out there, and it takes a lot of weight away from your "Dwight is arguably the best defender of all time" argument.

You put Roy Hibbert in that spot and nothing changes defensively. Same with a guy like Chandler, and a handful of others.
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:38 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Re: NBA double standard....yeah deal with it.

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Elaborate. Please. I'd love to hear it.

And do so with something better than "Dwight's been injured!"


He was the defensive anchor on a 100% defense first team. He wasn't locking people down, he was the last line of defense on a team that focused on playing D. Its a team full of good defenders.
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:46 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Re: NBA double standard....yeah deal with it.

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Elaborate. Please. I'd love to hear it.
Equating Roy Hibbert to a three time defensive player of the year is laughable.
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:48 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Re: NBA double standard....yeah deal with it.

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Equating Roy Hibbert to a three time defensive player of the year is laughable.
How good has his defense been in LA?
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:49 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Re: NBA double standard....yeah deal with it.

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Originally Posted by R-Star View Post
Elaborate. Please. I'd love to hear it.

And do so with something better than "Dwight's been injured!"


He was the defensive anchor on a 100% defense first team. He wasn't locking people down, he was the last line of defense on a team that focused on playing D. Its a team full of good defenders.
Jameer Nelson, Vince Carter, Hedo Turkeyglue, and Rashard Lewis are good defenders? Again, laughable.
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:50 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Re: NBA double standard....yeah deal with it.

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Jameer Nelson, Vince Carter, Hedo Turkeyglue, and Rashard Lewis are good defenders? Again, laughable.
Naming 4 players to represent a team as a whole? Brilliant.



Oh, no I meant laughable. And Jameer Nelson is a good defender, sorry to alarm you.
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:52 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Re: NBA double standard....yeah deal with it.

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Naming 4 players to represent a team as a whole? Brilliant.



Oh, no I meant laughable. And Jameer Nelson is a good defender, sorry to alarm you.
Uh, I used the other four starters to represent the fifth player's supporting cast? Did you want me to list the whole roster? I'm pretty sure JJ Reddick and Ryan Anderson were coming off the bench if that helps.

And 5'10 Jameer Nelson isn't a good defender, and even if he was, Dwight anchored the best defense in the league/led the Magic to the finals the year he went down for half a season and essentially missed the entire post season, and was replaced by the immortal Rafer Alston.
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:56 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Re: NBA double standard....yeah deal with it.

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Uh, I used the other four starters to represent the fifth player's supporting cast? Did you want me to list the whole roster? I'm pretty sure JJ Reddick and Ryan Anderson were coming off the bench if that helps.

And 5'10 Jameer Nelson isn't a good defender, and even if he was, Dwight anchored the best defense in the league/led the Magic to the finals the year he went down for half a season and essentially missed the entire post season, and was replaced by the immortal Rafer Alston.
If its a terrible defensive team, why did they play good defense after Howards departure?


And I'm glad you think height equates to if a player is good on defense or not. That's cute.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:07 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Re: NBA double standard....yeah deal with it.

Damn shit is getting real.

I guess the other problem about measuring defense is there are no good stats to do it with. I am always wary of these TS% TRB% blah blah and whatever the **** else they are called.

What makes a good defensive player? I think it has to have rebounding, blocks, steals and how many points you let your guy score as well as how many fouls you commit. The things that they don't have stats for or at least I've never seen are how many times does your player not shoot or turns the ball over because you are guarding him, how many times do you not allow your player to even get the ball on each possession etc.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:14 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Re: NBA double standard....yeah deal with it.

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Damn shit is getting real.

I guess the other problem about measuring defense is there are no good stats to do it with. I am always wary of these TS% TRB% blah blah and whatever the **** else they are called.

What makes a good defensive player? I think it has to have rebounding, blocks, steals and how many points you let your guy score as well as how many fouls you commit. The things that they don't have stats for or at least I've never seen are how many times does your player not shoot or turns the ball over because you are guarding him, how many times do you not allow your player to even get the ball on each possession etc.
Its a lot of thing. Altering shots is something that never comes up. Points allowed is great, but if you're a C, your opposition every night has a much lower offensive output in todays league than a 2 or 3 would have, so it wouldn't be fair to do a strait comparison.


People get way too caught up in names these days. IE Kobe and Wade getting All NBA awards when they weren't anywhere near top defensive players, or Dwight Howard winning 3 DPOY's when a lot of that was his coach and the system the team played.


Is Roy Hibbert as good as Howard on defense. No. But is Dwight Howard an alltime great, maybe the best defensive big of all time like Luke has tried to argue? Now that's laughable.
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:02 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Re: NBA double standard....yeah deal with it.

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If its a terrible defensive team, why did they play good defense after Howards departure?


And I'm glad you think height equates to if a player is good on defense or not. That's cute.
It's a different team with a different coach, which also pokes holes in your "Stan was the reason!" argument. Fact of the matter is that 100% of the starting lineup was below average defensively and Dwight made them into a top ten defense (peaking at 1) throughout his prime years in Orlando.

Why do you think Jameer Nelson is a good defensive player? I want specifics.
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:06 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Re: NBA double standard....yeah deal with it.

Oh, and R-Star, it's adorable and all when you misquote me, but if we revisit those threads I didn't call Dwight arguably the best defensive big ever. I put Russell, Hakeem, Duncan, Robinson, and Rodman over him off the top of my head. I'm pretty sure he barely made my top ten. But please, keep bringing up things I've never said.
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:15 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Re: NBA double standard....yeah deal with it.

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It's a different team with a different coach, which also pokes holes in your "Stan was the reason!" argument. Fact of the matter is that 100% of the starting lineup was below average defensively and Dwight made them into a top ten defense (peaking at 1) throughout his prime years in Orlando.

Why do you think Jameer Nelson is a good defensive player? I want specifics.
Its a very similar team, and I was talking about last year when Dwight was out. This year, with mostly the same squad, they are still a good defensive team, despite you saying everyone on the squad is below average defensively.


Kind of shows, as per usual, that you have no clue about basketball.



And why do I think Jameer is good defensively? Its hilarious you want specifics, seeing as how you're the "I never EVER look at a stat sheet." If you watch Jameer, you know hes a good defender. Lock down? No. Below average like you called him? Not even close.

But as per usual, Luke just follows around big name players acting like he knows what he's talking about.


Ask Orlando fans around here. Those teams were good defensive squads, not Dwight and a bunch of below average defenders. I'm just going to chalk this up as you talking about something when you never saw one game, once again.
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