Who's fault?: Kobe, D'Antoni, or entire team?

[Luke]

Originally Posted by NOFX22

Yea the highest payroll in the league, with the highest paid player in the league, with 4 HOFers on the roster, that was most people's Finals pick for the west. At %.500 through 62 games....huge impact

How many games have the four hofers played together again?


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[e-monk]

Originally Posted by NOFX22

Yea the highest payroll in the league, with the highest paid player in the league, with 4 HOFers on the roster, that was most people's Finals pick for the west. At %.500 through 62 games....huge impact

well that's one (decontextualized) way of looking at it I guess - sort of ignores the fact that Steve Nash missed 20 games and is 38 and that Pau has missed 20 games and counting and that Howard is playing at less than 100% etc etc etc but you're not wrong Walter...

[JBKB]

People are also ignoring the fact that HOF Nash is nearly washed-up. Why else would Kobe steal his job? OUCH! Sorry guys.

[XxIrvingxX]

Originally Posted by JBKB

People are also ignoring the fact that HOF Nash is nearly washed-up. Why else would Kobe steal his job? OUCH! Sorry guys.

What exactly are you being sorry about? This pretty much proves your entire statement wrong if anything.

[Hyperion]

Originally Posted by JBKB

People are also ignoring the fact that HOF Nash is nearly washed-up. Why else would Kobe steal his job? OUCH! Sorry guys.

There is a reason there are 24 seconds on a shot clock and Kobe's Jersey is 24 because that's how long he wants the ball in a shot clock.

[JBKB]

Originally Posted by Hyperion

There is a reason there are 24 seconds on a shot clock and Kobe's Jersey is 24 because that's how long he wants the ball in a shot clock.

Oh, Kobe wears 24? I never pay attention to any player's jersey number.

Anyway, I honestly don't understand why there is a 24 second rule per possession. It only adds luck to the game if you ask me. : ) Seriously, why make players force bad shots as they approach ten seconds or less?

[NOFX22]

If the Lakers are going to make the playoffs, they better not reach too high. They need to hold on dearly to that 8th seed and hope they can play the spurs, who have some dudes that are similar age and speed as LA. With parker just coming back and rusty, and the Spurs playing half court, they have a shot in hell to catch them... even though the Spurs depth and ball movement would rape LA.

If they get the 7th, 6th spots, they have NO SHOT to beat fast, athletic teams like OKC and Clippers... NONE. and they better hope to GOD they don't somehow run into the Nuggets down the road.... Best bet for LA is to sneak into the playoffs, snag that 8th seed and hope Parker and the Spurs nut up another #1 seed... (If Parker is healthy, he has a long RAPE history against Nash, and it could get ugly.) then hope to GOD that Memphis beats Denver in the 1st round... and they can play halfcourt ball again with Memphis and us Dwight and Gasol to deal with Zeebo and little Gasol.

Don't get me wrong, Spurs and Memphis would still probably beat LA... but LA would have a fighting chance... against OKC, Denver, Clippers.. No ****ing shot in hell. those teams are too fast and would score WAY too easily in abundance on them.

I'm still holding out hope LA misses the playoffs, just so I can give all the LA ****boy fans some shit though

[Luke]

Originally Posted by NOFX22

If the Lakers are going to make the playoffs, they better not reach too high. They need to hold on dearly to that 8th seed and hope they can play the spurs, who have some dudes that are similar age and speed as LA. With parker just coming back and rusty, and the Spurs playing half court, they have a shot in hell to catch them... even though the Spurs depth and ball movement would rape LA.

If they get the 7th, 6th spots, they have NO SHOT to beat fast, athletic teams like OKC and Clippers... NONE. and they better hope to GOD they don't somehow run into the Nuggets down the road.... Best bet for LA is to sneak into the playoffs, snag that 8th seed and hope Parker and the Spurs nut up another #1 seed... (If Parker is healthy, he has a long RAPE history against Nash, and it could get ugly.) then hope to GOD that Memphis beats Denver in the 1st round... and they can play halfcourt ball again with Memphis and us Dwight and Gasol to deal with Zeebo and little Gasol.

Don't get me wrong, Spurs and Memphis would still probably beat LA... but LA would have a fighting chance... against OKC, Denver, Clippers.. No ****ing shot in hell. those teams are too fast and would score WAY too easily in abundance on them.

I'm still holding out hope LA misses the playoffs, just so I can give all the LA ****boy fans some shit though

So mad.


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[KobeConfidence]

How could this be Kobe's fault at all when the dude is averaging 27 5 5? Who the hell does that at age 34? Not even MJ. Dude is the 3rd best player in the league behind lebron and durant. L.A. would be good enough to win a championship if Gasol was first of all even playing, and second of all when he plays, play like 08-10 form. A least they're getting back in the playoff hunt but it really is baffling how in 2010-11 and 2011-12 they at least made the playoffs and were relatively good and that was considered a failure.

[Jace]

I've barely read this thread. It's not Kobe's fault. Just looking at stats won't tell you that, though. Every year, players put up great stats while ultimately being pernicious to their team's success. He's been one of the reasons for their awful D, but you can only expect so much from a 34-year-old doing so much offensively. Ultimately, you can't blame a guy having his best season in years at his age.

Say what you will about defense or occasionally evading team play, but he'd easily be an MVP candidate somewhere around Durant and Paul if the Lakers were a top-4 seed.

There's a lot of blame pie to go around, though it's not as large and rotten as it was 20 or so games ago. Dwight's health and mental approach are probably public enemy no. 1. I mean, clearly he's not the player he was in ORL. I think the majority of that is his health, but some of it can be attributed to his mind. Somewhere between ORL and LA he became convinced that he needed to play like Shaq, or a classic pre-00's C. Though he's greatly improved in the low-post and facing up, his bread and butter is his claim to fame as the best pick-and-roll big in the league. Perhaps Shaq screwed that all up by purporting he had to fit the 90's C paradigm in order to be validated as a dominant C. Clearly that got in Dwight's head, and he's forgotten what's made him effective his entire career. Set hard screens. Roll strong to the rim. Make yourself a big target for the pass.

On paper, the Kobe/Dwight pick-and-roll should be devastating. It takes two to tango, though. Both have to be on that page. If Dwight isn't setting hard screens, and Kobe is only hunting for his own shot off the screen, it won't work. You need both. All Dwight has to do is screen and roll for Nash consistently to get himself and the O going, though. To me, that's the difference between D'Antoni being an abject failure as a hire for LAL, or a suitable fit.

It's that, and Dwight's inability to shut down the lane like we're used to, that has drastically lowered the ceiling on what many thought the Lakers would be. The defensive side is what I'd feel you'd have to attribute to health. Say what you will about the 'Antoni system or perimeter personnel, but watching the games your eyes will tell you Dwight's not protecting the paint like he used to. That's something that's so ingrained in instinct and pride, you'd have to believe its absence is health-related.

[Jace]

Originally Posted by NOFX22

If the Lakers are going to make the playoffs, they better not reach too high. They need to hold on dearly to that 8th seed and hope they can play the spurs, who have some dudes that are similar age and speed as LA. With parker just coming back and rusty, and the Spurs playing half court, they have a shot in hell to catch them... even though the Spurs depth and ball movement would rape LA.

If they get the 7th, 6th spots, they have NO SHOT to beat fast, athletic teams like OKC and Clippers... NONE. and they better hope to GOD they don't somehow run into the Nuggets down the road.... Best bet for LA is to sneak into the playoffs, snag that 8th seed and hope Parker and the Spurs nut up another #1 seed... (If Parker is healthy, he has a long RAPE history against Nash, and it could get ugly.) then hope to GOD that Memphis beats Denver in the 1st round... and they can play halfcourt ball again with Memphis and us Dwight and Gasol to deal with Zeebo and little Gasol.

Don't get me wrong, Spurs and Memphis would still probably beat LA... but LA would have a fighting chance... against OKC, Denver, Clippers.. No ****ing shot in hell. those teams are too fast and would score WAY too easily in abundance on them.

I'm still holding out hope LA misses the playoffs, just so I can give all the LA ****boy fans some shit though

You had a decent post going, and then you spread your cheeks and defecated on it with the last line. RIP.

As far as the playoffs...there are up to five teams LAL could play in the 1st-round: SA, OKC, LAC, MEM, and DEN.

Spurs - Really bad matchup for the Lakers. Can run or play half-court very efficiently. Best offensive system in the league. Extremely deep. Good enough defense and enough size to combat LAL's strengths up front. Parker would obliterate the D on his own.

Thunder - Also have the front court personnel to deal with LAL. Impossible matchups with Durant and Westbrook. Only hope for LAL is if RW goes full-retard the entire series.

Clippers - Tons of depth and a high-ceiling, uber-athletic front court. Combine that with the presence of at least one elite superstar in CP3, and a potential superstar in Griffin. Even if it winds up being a battle of attrition, gotta believe the Clippers take it.

Memphis - Have the defense to take away the best LAL has to offer. Their biggest weakest is offense, but defense being LAL's biggest weakness helps them out there. Conley can have a field day in this series, and Gasol and Z-Bo figure to dominate. Tony Allen is an ideal defender to put on Kobe for a series. Another uphill battle for the Lakers. I feel like Gay being gone only makes them tougher here.

Denver - Probably LAL's best chance. The combination of insane home court advantage, Denver's speed/athleticism, their ability to counter with Dwight's physical attributes, their depth, and the potential for Ty Lawson to go ape shit in the postseason hurts the Lakers' chances. Ultimately playoff series often come down to who has the superstars, so LAL no doubt has a chance.

[e-monk]

can we take a moment here and just give Kobe Bean his due or is there just too much hate for even the most obvious?

[JBKB]

Originally Posted by e-monk

can we take a moment here and just give Kobe Bean his due or is there just too much hate for even the most obvious?

Nope! Kobe had referee assistance. Offensive foul on Rudy Gay late in the fourth... sure!

[Ron]

Originally Posted by e-monk

can we take a moment here and just give Kobe Bean his due or is there just too much hate for even the most obvious?

And some people will never acknowledge Jordan was a great player.

And some people will never acknowledge Wilt's greatness.

And some people cannot accept that Bill Clinton was once the president of this country.

Are you beginning to see the camp where people like JBKB reside?

Hint: If enough posters put him on ignore, he will finally get the fact that people are not reacting to his numbskull-like behavior.

Unfortunately for admins, we can't put these clowns on ignore. We have to endure them.

[Jamel Irief]

Losing respect for my fellow Laker fans here. JBKB isn't even trying that hard and he's still getting to you.