Who's fault?: Kobe, D'Antoni, or entire team?

[JBKB]

Originally Posted by GrandKenyon6

The blame is clearly on all of them.

But it's funny to me how Lakers fans keep absolving Kobe of all blame and scream 'it's the defense, it's the defense!'.

The offense affects the defense. A lot of defense is about effort, and from much of what I've seen the effort just isn't there. When one guy monopolizes the ball for entire possessions and takes contested fadeaways, even if he's making them, it's going to affect the effort of other players. Even if the Lakers are scoring well, it's just not good basketball when players like Howard and Gasol are being largely ignored. The team isn't playing together and it's on both Kobe and D'Antoni to move the ball.

POST OF THE MONTH!!!: ) EXCELLENT POST!

[XxIrvingxX]

Originally Posted by doctordrizzay

oooooh 1 NBA player out of 500 said that about Kobe. If Jennings tells you to jump off a bridge would you?

Lmao at this kid bringing up Jennings as a credible source for defense. Kobe is garbage on D, I watch the game's he bring's nothing to the table especially off-ball help D.

He's pure trash, I mean he has 4 Hall of famers on his team and he can't make them better, he makes them worse.

Right, a nine time all NBA defensive team player is trash on D. You're an idiot, don't comment on things you aren't smart enough to even grasp the concept of.

[XxIrvingxX]

Originally Posted by JBKB

It's funny that you keep saying I'm biased solely towards Kobe when I have over and over also put the blame on Nash, MWP, and Dwight Howard.

...that still doesn't mean you aren't biased towards Kobe.

Originally Posted by JBKB

I'll repeat: Nash needs to shoot more when he has the opportunity considering he is a great shooter. Dwight Howard needs to learn how to do more than just dunk, and actually learn how to shoot free throws since he will spend the majority of his career at the line.

Learning how to do more than Dunk (even though he knows how to do other things on offense if you actually ever watched him play before) won't do much when you consider the fact that he's barely even trying.

Originally Posted by JBKB

Metta World Peace needs to stop getting HOTHEADED and taking threes when he's barely wide open. Just because you hit one three MWP, it doesn't mean you will hit the next five. You are not Steve Kerr or Ray Allen.

So despite all of this you're putting the most blame on the guy who's actually making his shots?

Originally Posted by JBKB

Finally, I discuss Kobe. I put lots of blame on Kobe because he is "the leader" of the team. Yes, it is "my opinion" and many many others' opinion that Kobe should pass the ball more.

There isn't a single person right now here who is agreeing with your assumption that Kobe needs to "pass" the ball more. And you named good reasons for it. If his teammates don't want to shoot or can't play on offense, then why should he pass the ball?

And even then, HES PASSING IT MORE THAN HE NEEDS TO. Anyone who actually watches the game knows that, especially when you consider how bad his team has been.

Originally Posted by JBKB

If "I personally" were an NBA coach, I would bench Kobe if he doesn't become more of a team player.

Originally Posted by JBKB

As a coach, I would want all my players receiving touches.

They are receiving touches...again, watch the ****ing games, it might help you in the long run.

Originally Posted by JBKB

I don't want my players receiving touches only when there is 7 seconds left on the clock and Kobe is jammed. Full ball movement would be my key to success. The Lakers lack full ball movement because Kobe is too eager to shoot instead of pass.

Do you even bother watching a single footage of a Lakers game? Or do you just go off of what other idiots say about Kobe? Usually when Kobe shoots, it's when the shot clock is winding down or when he's open for a shot, and if he's open for a shot or even has a little bit of room, I would want him to take that shot. Why? Because he can actually make it! You have absolutely no knowledge of the game at all, it's almost like you just started watching basketball like a month ago and suddenly you think you're an expert on the game. I'm not an expert of it in anyway, but you're making me sound like Larry Bird at this point with the stupid shit you're saying.

[rayz789]

Its clearly kobe's fault. The man is leading the league in fg attempts for crying out loud in which proving he's ballhogging when he has 3 future hall of famers on his team. How can this lakers with nash,kobe,gasol,howard be this bad? And incase people make excuse about injuries and other bs the lakers with 4 of future hall of famers are playing together that they are 3-9 in total in which i'm including the first 2 with mike brown and the rest with mike antoni.The lakers are just playing terrible because again its kobe. Howard has said (We not trusting one another. We not moving the ball. The clippers are moving the ball so well in which with us, the ball dont move.) Mike Antoni even said yesterday or the other day (We not moving the ball.) <<Come on lakers fans take a guess what these two are refering too? Ohh i forgot kobe won 5 rings? Oh yeah i forgot it was last year he won his last ring? 2 Years? Are we living in the past?

[XxIrvingxX]

Originally Posted by rayz789

Its clearly kobe's fault. The man is leading the league in fg attempts for crying out loud in which proving he's ballhogging when he has 3 future hall of famers on his team. How can this lakers with nash,kobe,gasol,howard be this bad? And incase people make excuse about injuries and other bs the lakers with 4 of future hall of famers are playing together that they are 3-9 in total in which i'm including the first 2 with mike brown and the rest with mike antoni.The lakers are just playing terrible because again its kobe. Howard has said (We not trusting one another. We not moving the ball. The clippers are moving the ball so well in which with us, the ball dont move.) Mike Antoni even said yesterday or the other day (We not moving the ball.) <<Come on lakers fans take a guess what these two are refering too? Ohh i forgot kobe won 5 rings? Oh yeah i forgot it was last year he won his last ring? 2 Years? Are we living in the past?

Stats don't prove that someone is ball hogging. That has to be the most idiotic argument you could possibly make in regards to something like this.

[JBKB]

Originally Posted by XxIrvingxX

Stats don't prove that someone is ball hogging.

I'm not the biggest fan of stats myself, but I wouldn't be so quick to make this claim. Ballhogging is not a difficult term; it's simply a player who hogs the ball and takes far more shots than most other shooters on the team.

It would be interesting if someone already did the work to find out exactly how many shots every player on the Lakers has taken this season. No one would be surprised to learn that Kobe by far surpasses everyone else in shots attempted, which most clearly means he is ballhogging.

[rayz789]

Originally Posted by JBKB

I'm not the biggest fan of stats myself, but I wouldn't be so quick to make this claim. Ballhogging is not a difficult term; it's simply a player who hogs the ball and takes far more shots than most other shooters on the team.

It would be interesting if someone already did the work to find out exactly how many shots every player on the Lakers has taken this season. No one would be surprised to learn that Kobe by far surpasses everyone else in shots attempted, which most clearly means he is ballhogging.

Irving wont admit he's far wrong because its proven my point that kobe is clearly ballhogging in which is the evidence of him taking more attempts then any other players this season in which is bad. Irving also mention about the offense in which its not the problem? Well irving tell me what are the lakers rank in assist pergame as a team? Since you keep saying me and jbkb are idiots, prove us wrong. Kobe is ball hogging point blank period in which is why bynum from last year and howard this year are complaining they not getting much touches because of number 24. Stop kissing up to kobe.

[Luke]

Aren't the lakers like a top five offensive team or something?


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[rayz789]

Originally Posted by Luke

Aren't the lakers like a top five offensive team or something?


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Are they top 5 or atleast top 10 in assist? Hmmmmmm.

[JBKB]

Originally Posted by rayz789

Irving wont admit he's far wrong because its proven my point that kobe is clearly ballhogging in which is the evidence of him taking more attempts then any other players this season in which is bad. Irving also mention about the offense in which its not the problem? Well irving tell me what are the lakers rank in assist pergame as a team? Since you keep saying me and jbkb are idiots, prove us wrong. Kobe is ball hogging point blank period in which is why bynum from last year and howard this year are complaining they not getting much touches because of number 24. Stop kissing up to kobe.

lol, Yeah, I'm not sure either why Irving is acting as though this is the first time in life someone has called Kobe a ballhogger. Kobe even admits he's a ballhogger!

[JBKB]

@IRVING Look at what Kobe tweeted Tuesday afternoon when NBA TV broadcasted his 81 point game.

"at this point, I wouldn't pass a kidney stone"

[yodurk]

There is plenty of blame to go around. Management made a terrible coaching hire; D'Antoni is a fraud coach that only knows 1 system, and that system does not work at all with this group of players. They also miscalculated the level of fit between this group of players; not only on the court, but off it (Kobe & Howard really seem to not like each other). They also put alot of stake in an aging group of players which doesn't always pay off, and sacrificed bench quality in the process.

On top of that, Howard doesn't take the game seriously enough. Kobe doesn't react well to adversity. And Gasol seems unmotivated.

The injuries obviously aren't their fault and that hasn't helped things, but the above factors eliminate any chance of overcoming injuries.

The question then becomes, who do they commit to? D'Antoni is on a freshly inked contract. Howard is the youngest star of the bunch. Kobe is the face of the franchise.

[e-monk]

anti-kobe people, the problem with your griping is this (and was brought up by someone else earlier in the thread and promptly ignored because you lot are mostly idiots): he's doing nothing he hasnt done all career and that's been good for 5 rings so you're wrong, period, shut up, /close thread

[JBKB]

Originally Posted by e-monk

he's doing nothing he hasnt done all career and that's been good for 5 rings so you're wrong, period, shut up, /close thread

Actually this is Kobe's worst start throughout the entire Kobe era. I was watching First Take this morning and Skip Bayless pointed out that Kobe has taken more shots than EVERY SINGLE PLAYER in the league. In fact, it was said that Russell Westbrook comes 2nd and Kobe exceeds Westbrook in shots taken by 112 shots. WOW!

The problem is that Kobe consistently takes low percentage shots instead looking for high percentage shots. All it takes is sufficient ball movement, but Kobe refuses to distribute the ball properly. In fact, why does Kobe hold the ball more than Nash if Nash is the supposed point guard?

As for ball movement, I can't remember which game, but at the end of a Lakers win, Dwight Howard told the media they are a great team when they move the ball well. I think he was subtly sending a message to Kobe.

As for championship rings, yes Kobe has 5, but that is the past. We are talking about what is happening now. Kobe needs to put more energy into being a leader and getting his team involved instead of shooting low percentage shots.

Originally Posted by e-monk

anti-kobe people

You can't prove anyone is anti-kobe. Criticizing Kobe doesn't mean someone is anti-kobe. Kobe is not a God; he is a human being who makes mistakes just like you and me. What I and many fans believe is that Kobe should stop ballhogging and get his team involved.

I'll end it with this. No matter what happens going forward, I will always respect Kobe as one of the greateset player I have ever witnessed play the game of basketball. No way am I anti-Kobe.

[e-monk]

Originally Posted by JBKB

Actually this is Kobe's worst start throughout the entire Kobe era.

two things

1) his usage is actually down from the last 2 seasons, back to where it was when they won their last two titles and his efg/ts #s are at a career high
2) Enough of that