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Old 02-06-2013, 09:05 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Is Kareem the greatest player of all-time?

They didn't change the rules to stop Jordan, but teams built entire defensive philosophies around beating him up (the Pistons, among others) or chasing him around the floor.
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:29 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Is Kareem the greatest player of all-time?

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Originally Posted by Dornado View Post
They didn't change the rules to stop Jordan, but teams built entire defensive philosophies around beating him up (the Pistons, among others) or chasing him around the floor.
while the pistons team agenda was to rough MJ up whenever he got away from dumars or rodman, jordan's era was built around lessening physical play on offensive players...while doing nothing to prevent offensive players from being rough...and jordan was easily the most physical guard of his time on offense.

most notably handchecking was outlawed in 1994 and increased penalties for flagrant fouls in 1990(with the pistons in mind obviously)

there was also using the forearm against players facing the basket in 1997, all helping jordan's and later kobe's post up game to flourish because it allowed them to be more physical with their defenders , than their defenders were allowed to be with them.

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In 1999, the league eliminated contact by a defender with his hands and forearms both in the backcourt and frontcourt, except on offensive players who caught the ball below the free throw line extended. Defenses were also prohibited from "re-routing" players off the ball. This freed up perimeter players who used screens to get open. Nor were defenders able any more to grab or impede offensive players setting screens. In 2001, the defensive three-second rule eliminated defenders camping out in the lane away from their offensive man to help.
http://www.nba.com/2009/news/feature...idge.defenses/
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:05 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Is Kareem the greatest player of all-time?

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Originally Posted by PauloCatarino View Post
If one considers also his College career (which, IIRC, is the greatest amongst the 4, 5 players people talk about being the GOAT) then yes, he is in the discussion as the Greatest Ever.
His college career is such a myth, James Worthy was the star on that NCAA championship winning team. Kareem had a far better college career, maybe it was because he was at UCLA but still that 82 team was James Worthy not MJ.

EDIT: NVM I thought you were talking about MJ.

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Old 02-06-2013, 10:13 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Is Kareem the greatest player of all-time?

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His college career is such a myth, James Worthy was the star on that NCAA championship winning team. Kareem had a far better college career, maybe it was because he was at UCLA but still that 82 team was James Worthy not MJ.
He WAS talking about Kareem.
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:13 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Is Kareem the greatest player of all-time?

I can't say 1 is the GOAT but if there were Tiers Id have Tier AAA - Kobe, Lebron, Duncan, Shaq, Malone, Isaiah Thomas etc Tier AA - Bird, Magic, Russell Tier A - Wilt, Kareem and MJ, I would even put Russell here.

say what you will about Kareem and MJ but Wilt Chamberlain was a better scorer Kareem and IMO a better scorer than MJ, and even if not he was just as good, he had better defense than both, better rebounding, averaged 1 less assist a season than Jordan, hold something like 60 NBA records

MINUTES
Most seasons leading league: 8
Most consecutive seasons leading league: 5
Highest average per game, career: 45.8
Highest average per game, season: 48.5
COMPLETE GAMES
Most, season: 79
Most consecutive, season: 47
SCORING
Most cons. seasons leading league: *7
Most points, season: 4,029
Highest average, season: 50.4
Most points, rookie, season: 2,707
Highest average, rookie, season: 37.6
Most points, game: 100
Most points, rookie, game: 58
Most games, 50 or more, career: 118
Most games, 50 or more, season: 45
Most cons.e games, 50 or more points: 7
Most games, 40 or more, career: 271
Most games, 40 or more, season: 63
Most cons. games, 40 or more points: 14
Most cons. games, 30 or more points: 65
Most cons. games, 20 or more points: 126
Most points, one half: 59
FIELD-GOAL PERCENTAGE
Most seasons leading league: **9
Most cons. seasons leading league: 5
Highest, season (qualifiers): .727
Highest, game (min. 15 FG): ***1.000
Most field goals, no misses, game: 18
FIELD GOALS
Most cons. seasons leading league: *7
Most, season: 1,597
Most cons., no misses, season: 35
Most, game: 36
Most, one half: 22
FIELD GOAL ATTEMPTS
Most cons. seasons leading league: 7
Most, season: 3,159
Most, game: 63
Most, one half: 37
Most, one quarter: 21
FREE THROWS MADE
Most, game: 28
FREE THROW ATTEMPTS
Most seasons leading league: 9
Most cons. seasons leading league: 6
Most, season: 1,363
Most, game: 34
REBOUNDS
Most seasons leading league: 11
Most, career: 23,924
Highest average, career: 22.9
Most, season: 2,149
Most, rookie, season: 1,941
Most seasons, 1,000 or more: 13
Highest average, season: 27.2
Most, game: 55
Most, rookie, game: 45
DISQUALIFICATIONS
Lowest percentage, career: ****0.00
POINTS, PLAYOFFS
Most by rookie, game: 53
MINUTES, PLAYOFFS
Most, 3-game series: 144
Most, 4-game series: 195
Most, 6-game series: 296
FIELD GOALS, PLAYOFFS
Most, 7-game series: 113
Most made, game: 24
Most attempts, game: 28
Most attempts, half: 25
FIELD GOAL ATTEMPTS, PLAYOFFS
Most, 3-game series: 104
Highest field goal percentage (minimum, 8): 1.000*****
REBOUNDS, PLAYOFFS
Most, 5-game series: 160
Most, 6-game series: 171
Most, 7-game series: 220
Highest average, per game, series: 32.0
Most, game: 41
Most, half: 26
Most by rookie, game: 35
MINUTES, FINALS
Most, 5-game series: 240
REBOUNDS, FINALS
Most, 6-game series: 171
Most, half: 26
NOTES
*Tied with Michael Jordan
**Tied with Shaquille O'Neal
***Three times (15/15, 16/16, 18/18)
****Tied with several others, but played most games of any
*****Tied with 12 others
Updated as of 2005-06 season

1 or 2 of those may have been broken.

Talk about team players or team success all you want but as far as an individual goes Wilt takes the cake, if I was forced to vote for GOAT it would be WILT.
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:17 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: Is Kareem the greatest player of all-time?

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Originally Posted by The Big Dipper View Post
His college career is such a myth, James Worthy was the star on that NCAA championship winning team. Kareem had a far better college career, maybe it was because he was at UCLA but still that 82 team was James Worthy not MJ.
Jordan was a freshman in '82... no shame in Worthy being the bigger factor on that team. The next two years Jordan was 1st team all-american, and a Wooden award winner in '84. I don't think Jordan's college career was a 'myth'... nor do I think people really hype his college career that much.

Nobody's college career really compares to Jabbar/Alcindor. I'm pretty sure UCLA was 88-2 in his three years there.
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:29 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: Is Kareem the greatest player of all-time?

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Originally Posted by Dornado View Post
Jordan was a freshman in '82... no shame in Worthy being the bigger factor on that team. The next two years Jordan was 1st team all-american, and a Wooden award winner in '84. I don't think Jordan's college career was a 'myth'... nor do I think people really hype his college career that much.

Nobody's college career really compares to Jabbar/Alcindor. I'm pretty sure UCLA was 88-2 in his three years there.
I hear hype about it often, and yeah you are right
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:04 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: Is Kareem the greatest player of all-time?

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no one had the impact that wilt had simply because they had to change some rules to deal with his dominance.

but it is worth noting they had to outlaw dunking from the college game because of kareem's arrival

and he had to wear goggles because opposing players felt the only way to stop was to poke him in the eyes.

no one ever felt the need to go that far to stop Jordan...in fact the rule were changed during his time that aided him in scoring.
Good post!

When it comes to "impacting" the game of basketball, Wilt is in a tier of his own.

Going back to Kareem: can any basketball player in history rival Kareem's individual 10 year span from 1966-1967 to 1976-1977?

During that period he was:
- 3 times NCAA Champ (and 3 times Final Four MOP);
- Rookie of the year;
- All-Nba 1st team (once 2nd, once not selected);
- All-D 2 times (4 times second team);
- One championship and 1 Finals VMP award;
- 5 times MVP;
- Led the league (per game) twice in scoring, once in rebounding, twice in blocks and 6 times in PER;
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Old 02-08-2013, 10:31 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: Is Kareem the greatest player of all-time?

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OH, so no one called this a troll thread? lol Do I suspect favoritism for certain posters? I'm quite sure if a no-name poster posed this same question, he or she would quickly be labeled troll. lol

Anyway, in case the original poster is not trolling, I would like to know why would you factor in "championships?"

If we factor in championships, then doesn't that put Robert Horry in the discussion of greatest of all time?
This is not the same as some of your threads/posts. If you don't see the difference then you are a lost cause.

Hell in this very thread your argument against Michael Jordan is that he lost to his brother in one-on-one games as a kid. Seriously?

Most of your threads are fine, it's your posts/opinions/reasoning that has people labeling you a troll. No favoritism, just logic.
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Old 02-09-2013, 01:18 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: Is Kareem the greatest player of all-time?

Kareem is easily top 5 of all time. Greatest? No. Jordan has that & always will. But I would put Abdul-Jabbar over Chamberlain all day long.
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:08 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Re: Is Kareem the greatest player of all-time?

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Kareem is easily top 5 of all time. Greatest? No. Jordan has that & always will. But I would put Abdul-Jabbar over Chamberlain all day long.
How can Jabbar be over Chamberlain when Chamberlain should be above Jordan?

In what way are Kareem and Jordan better players than Wilt? Wilt is just
as good a scorer as MJ (probably better)and a better scorer than Kareem a better
defender than both, and averages 1 less assist per game than MJ and 1 more than Kareem.

DAMN ROOKIES
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:20 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Re: Is Kareem the greatest player of all-time?

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Originally Posted by The Big Dipper View Post
How can Jabbar be over Chamberlain when Chamberlain should be above Jordan?

In what way are Kareem and Jordan better players than Wilt? Wilt is just
as good a scorer as MJ (probably better)and a better scorer than Kareem a better
defender than both, and averages 1 less assist per game than MJ and 1 more than Kareem.

DAMN ROOKIES

You alright there Dipper?

How am I a "rookie" when I joined the board before you & have more posts than you?
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:47 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Re: Is Kareem the greatest player of all-time?

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You alright there Dipper?

How am I a "rookie" when I joined the board before you & have more posts than you?
You gonna respond to the point of my post or just the rookie part?
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:10 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Re: Is Kareem the greatest player of all-time?

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You gonna respond to the point of my post or just the rookie part?
It's all subjective anyway. I like how you try to "belittle" me by calling me a "rookie" because you disagree with what I said. That was real mature.
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:39 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Re: Is Kareem the greatest player of all-time?

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It's all subjective anyway. I like how you try to "belittle" me by calling me a "rookie" because you disagree with what I said. That was real mature.
"I" "like" "it" "too."

Ahhh the famous "it's all subjective" cop out line, cool dude take care.
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