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Old 03-07-2013, 09:56 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Faried or Rubio

I would suspect that this question is going to depend more on need than where you actually evaluate how good these guys are. Kyrie Irving has clearly separated himself from the rest of his draft class, but these are clearly the next two guys. Most people probably think of Rubio as a better player, but I am not sure that Faried can not get even better. The guy is a monster and he works hard at everything. He just needs to improve in certain areas to be great.

Not for sure which one I'd want as I believe it's more about circumstances. For example if I were the bobcats for example I would think that Faried would make my team better. Kemba is not any where close to Rubio as a point guard, but Faried would be a huge upgrade over anyone on their front line. If I had a team with a lot of great finishers, then I'd probably take Rubio.
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:29 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Faried or Rubio

Klay Kawhi Nikola and Chandler all have arguments for no2.

Plus I think you mean rookie class.
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Old 03-08-2013, 12:54 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Faried or Rubio

So situational. At least initially, I consider them a wash (equal masters of assists and rebounds, respectively), dependent on roster complexion. Faried is truly a manimal. He can pack on points off the ball bringing his lunch pale, and controls the boards like a Rodman-lite. Definitely see him as a championship-contending starting 4 on the right team.

Rubio might have a bit higher of a ceiling. Elite passer, and somewhat surprisingly, an elite defender. His jumpshot is his big weakness, but it's better than people think. I think ultimately he can have the bigger impact, so if we're going total vacuum I pick him.
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Old 03-08-2013, 07:16 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hroz View Post
Klay Kawhi Nikola and Chandler all have arguments for no2.

Plus I think you mean rookie class.
Pekovic is not a second year player. Nor is Chandler?

I take Rubio. I don't see how faired can ever be a top two player on a contender? He's like a very less skilled matrix.
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Old 03-08-2013, 07:50 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Is Rubio really an "elite" defender? I haven't seen enough to have an informed opinion.
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Old 03-08-2013, 08:14 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Faried or Rubio

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Originally Posted by Dornado View Post
Is Rubio really an "elite" defender? I haven't seen enough to have an informed opinion.
No he's not elite. He is good, though. He a sneaky steals guy who's very good at contesting every shot.
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Old 03-08-2013, 08:36 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Faried or Rubio

if Rubio develops a consistent jumper this isnt close buut that's a big 'if'
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Old 03-08-2013, 08:57 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Faried or Rubio

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Originally Posted by Dornado View Post
Is Rubio really an "elite" defender? I haven't seen enough to have an informed opinion.
I've seen maybe 40 of his games. He's my favorite point guard in the league (well him or Chris Paul). He might not be elite, but he's damn good.

Quick feet and hands, very intelligent, does better in the team setting than when he's isoed.

I'm getting sick of the Pistol Pete comparison. Pete's main skill was always scoring. I like the next Jason Kidd a lot more.
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Old 03-08-2013, 09:04 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Faried or Rubio

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Originally Posted by Jamel Irief View Post
Pekovic is not a second year player.
Vucevic.

As far as Rubio's defense is concerned, I haven't been too impressed. I mean, he generally knows where to be, has good size, and is one of the best thieves in the NBA. He just looks really lazy out there, especially when he's on the ball. It seems like he's rarely in defensive stance and just lets players go by him because he knows he can't keep up.
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Old 03-08-2013, 10:23 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Faried or Rubio

How did Norris "Almost as good as Chris Paul" Cole not make this discussion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamel Irief View Post
Pekovic is not a second year player. Nor is Chandler?
He was using first names, so the Chandler is question is Chandler Parsons, eighth pick in the second round of 2011. And he'd be my pick for the second best from the class of '11 (and I like Faried and Klay Thompson). His defense still leaves a little something to be desired, but he's that rare player that's managed to turn himself into an offensively competent player via hard work. Even in college he shot free throws in the .600 range, but finally this year he's pushed his FT% past .700 and become an efficient scorer. He might actually be a viable third scoring option playing with The Beard.

Quote:
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I take Rubio. I don't see how faired can ever be a top two player on a contender? He's like a very less skilled matrix.
Again, I like Faried but this is an apt comparison. His defense isn't there yet (his awareness in space can be a problem when you're supposed to be an NBA PF). He's all hustle, rebounds and garbage buckets. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Boston's biggest mistake on draft night 2011 was trading down three spots rather than up three spots.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamel Irief View Post
I've seen maybe 40 of his games. He's my favorite point guard in the league (well him or Chris Paul). He might not be elite, but he's damn good. Quick feet and hands, very intelligent, does better in the team setting than when he's isoed.
His defense leaves a lot to be desired still. He plays the same sort of matador defense that Rondo does. I don't see him in a proper defensive stance, pretty much ever. And given how point guard centric the league is these days the "But he's a good team defender!" excuse doesn't cut it anymore. Now, if the 'Wolves were to find an Avery Bradley type to guard the one and let Rubio guard the two the problem is minimised (which is what Boston essentially did with Rondo and Bradley).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamel Irief View Post
I'm getting sick of the Pistol Pete comparison. Pete's main skill was always scoring. I like the next Jason Kidd a lot more.
Maravich was both a great scorer and passer. I was there, I watched it growing up. It was like watching Marques Haynes (as my great uncle insisted) or Curley Neal playing in the NBA. He was just a magician with the ball in his hands, and Rubio has that same sort of flair with his passing.
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Old 03-08-2013, 10:44 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Faried or Rubio

I like Faried more today but I think Rubio has the bigger ceiling and will have the better carried. Faried will be an elite role player. Rubio can be a perennial all star and maybe even get to superstar level if he works really hard. PG tend to also have a bigger impact on the game than athletic Forward Tweeners.

I don't see Rubio as a top 2 player on a championship team (unless he reaches superstar status) but def top 3. Farried is more a starting 5 on a chip team IMO.
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Old 03-08-2013, 10:49 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Faried or Rubio

Quote:
Originally Posted by E.H. Munro View Post
How did Norris "Almost as good as Chris Paul" Cole not make this discussion?



He was using first names, so the Chandler is question is Chandler Parsons, eighth pick in the second round of 2011. And he'd be my pick for the second best from the class of '11 (and I like Faried and Klay Thompson). His defense still leaves a little something to be desired, but he's that rare player that's managed to turn himself into an offensively competent player via hard work. Even in college he shot free throws in the .600 range, but finally this year he's pushed his FT% past .700 and become an efficient scorer. He might actually be a viable third scoring option playing with The Beard.



Again, I like Faried but this is an apt comparison. His defense isn't there yet (his awareness in space can be a problem when you're supposed to be an NBA PF). He's all hustle, rebounds and garbage buckets. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Boston's biggest mistake on draft night 2011 was trading down three spots rather than up three spots.



His defense leaves a lot to be desired still. He plays the same sort of matador defense that Rondo does. I don't see him in a proper defensive stance, pretty much ever. And given how point guard centric the league is these days the "But he's a good team defender!" excuse doesn't cut it anymore. Now, if the 'Wolves were to find an Avery Bradley type to guard the one and let Rubio guard the two the problem is minimised (which is what Boston essentially did with Rondo and Bradley).



Maravich was both a great scorer and passer. I was there, I watched it growing up. It was like watching Marques Haynes (as my great uncle insisted) or Curley Neal playing in the NBA. He was just a magician with the ball in his hands, and Rubio has that same sort of flair with his passing.
To further expand what I said, Rubio is a type of player you can build your team around. Meaning you have him and another piece (Love) and you can start finding players to complement those two. Faried is not that type of guy. On any given night he can impact a game more than Rubio, but that's because he's not a focus for other teams.

You're right about Rubio's defense. I guess I was speaking more about his defensive abilities than how he utilizes them in practice.

As for the Pistol Pete comparison, that's like calling Larry Sanders the next Dwight Howard because they both get up quickly off the floor to block shots. Pistol Pete was great at a lot of things, he was a top 50 player for a reason. But scoring was always his BEST skill.
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Old 03-08-2013, 11:22 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Faried or Rubio

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Originally Posted by Jamel Irief View Post
As for the Pistol Pete comparison, that's like calling Larry Sanders the next Dwight Howard because they both get up quickly off the floor to block shots. Pistol Pete was great at a lot of things, he was a top 50 player for a reason. But scoring was always his BEST skill.
ummmm....NO. You're essentially saying that we shouldn't call James or Bird great passers because their best skill was their ability to score. Which is nonsensical. Regardless of how great a scorer Bird was and James is they are tow of the greatest playmaking forwards in the history of the game. Regardless of the Pistol's ability to score he was a Harlem Globetrotter playing in the NBA. Had the NBA not been so stubborn about the three point shot he would have been a video game cheat code. Mute this video because the music sucks, but Jesus could that bad honkey mofo handle the ball.

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Old 03-08-2013, 01:37 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Faried or Rubio

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dornado View Post
Is Rubio really an "elite" defender? I haven't seen enough to have an informed opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RollWithEm View Post
No he's not elite. He is good, though. He a sneaky steals guy who's very good at contesting every shot.
I may've projected a little bit. I think he will be an elite PG defender down the line. It's not just steals, his instincts are amazing. He keeps the ball in front of him and is great at denials.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacers Fan View Post
Vucevic.

As far as Rubio's defense is concerned, I haven't been too impressed. I mean, he generally knows where to be, has good size, and is one of the best thieves in the NBA. He just looks really lazy out there, especially when he's on the ball. It seems like he's rarely in defensive stance and just lets players go by him because he knows he can't keep up.
Really been the last 10 or so games that he's been great defensively, as he rounds back into playing shape. I know I heard he was particularly amped to play the Heat in Minny, and his defense was fantastic. Might be a motivation thing.
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Old 03-08-2013, 02:46 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Faried or Rubio

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Originally Posted by E.H. Munro View Post
ummmm....NO. You're essentially saying that we shouldn't call James or Bird great passers because their best skill was their ability to score. Which is nonsensical. Regardless of how great a scorer Bird was and James is they are tow of the greatest playmaking forwards in the history of the game. Regardless of the Pistol's ability to score he was a Harlem Globetrotter playing in the NBA. Had the NBA not been so stubborn about the three point shot he would have been a video game cheat code. Mute this video because the music sucks, but Jesus could that bad honkey mofo handle the ball.

I don't think you're understanding me.

I never said Pistol could only score.

I said scoring was his GREATEST skill.

Rubio is not an elite or even great scorer.

In order to compare one guy to another they should be simiular in their respective best asset, IMO.

Now if you said "Rubio's passing reminds me of Pistol Petes" that'd be different.
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