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Update: Timberwolves' Andrew Wiggins Named 2015 NBA Kia Rookie of the Year

13K views 220 replies 31 participants last post by  POKEGAMERZ 
#1 ·
I'm hearing lots of people try to throw Mirotic as the ROY front runner and it's honestly made me annoyed enough to make a thread about it.

On Bill Simmons latest pod cast Zach Low says it has to be Mirotic right now. He's averaging 8 and 5. Wiggins on the other hand has 20+ points in 7 of his last 8 games and is really looking like he's coming into his own now.

To me Mirotic is undoubtedly the surprise rookie of the season, and second to his teammate Jimmy Butler as just general feel good surprise of the year. That being said, lets quit trying to preemptively hand out individual awards to congratulate the Bulls on returning to an honest to goodness title contender.

Maybe its just me, but to act like Wiggins isn't running away with this since Parker went down is foolish.
 
#79 ·
Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)

Mirotic is just getting so much love because he's on a really good team. Granted, he's playing really well in a small role on the Bulls, but the ROY traditionally goes to the rookie who puts up the biggest stats, and that has been Wiggins by a mile. He's going to win because he has been a top option on a bad team, while Mirotic is the 8th best player on his team.
 
#81 ·
Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)

Mirotic is just getting so much love because he's on a really good team. Granted, he's playing really well in a small role on the Bulls, but the ROY traditionally goes to the rookie who puts up the biggest stats, and that has been Wiggins by a mile. He's going to win because he has been a top option on a bad team, while Mirotic is the 8th best player on his team.
The Mirotic talk is winding down. In the last 10 games, he is averaging 7.5ppg on atrocious percentages and 4.1rpg. That's not ROY material by any stretch of imagination.
 
#104 ·
#83 ·
Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)

Wiggins has improved every month. The kid can play. He just has the passive mentality and takes longer to become comfortable. His per month splits show him getting better each month.

January- 21ppg, 5rpg, 3apg on 48% FG
December- 15ppg, 4rpg, 2apg on 41% FG
November- 12ppg, 4rpg, 1apg on 40% FG

Of course these are simple stats that don't tell the whole story, and his minutes going up have played a part in the increased volume, but as his volume has increased his efficiency has improved. That's a good sign. And even factoring for minutes, his productivity has increased each month.
 
#88 ·
Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)

Wiggins has improved every month. The kid can play. He just has the passive mentality and takes longer to become comfortable. His per month splits show him getting better each month.

January- 21ppg, 5rpg, 3apg on 48% FG
December- 15ppg, 4rpg, 2apg on 41% FG
November- 12ppg, 4rpg, 1apg on 40% FG

Of course these are simple stats that don't tell the whole story, and his minutes going up have played a part in the increased volume, but as his volume has increased his efficiency has improved. That's a good sign. And even factoring for minutes, his productivity has increased each month.
It cracks me up how quickly people jumped on him and labeled him a bust or a disappointment in November and December. God forbid a teenager takes half a season to get his feet wet and figure out how to play in the NBA.
 
#84 ·
Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)

I'm not making a ROY case for him, but I've been very happy with Marcus Smart lately. If you throw out his rough-start November stats and start counting when he came back from that ankle injury, his shooting stats are pretty good and he's shown actual point guard level court vision to go with borderline-elite on-ball defense. I'm not sure if he's a point guard or a combo guard, but he's going to be a really solid starter in a year or two.
 
#85 ·
Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)

I'm not making a ROY case for him, but I've been very happy with Marcus Smart lately. If you throw out his rough-start November stats and start counting when he came back from that ankle injury, his shooting stats are pretty good and he's shown actual point guard level court vision to go with borderline-elite on-ball defense. I'm not sure if he's a point guard or a combo guard, but he's going to be a really solid starter in a year or two.
I haven't watched much of the C's. Actually none of them since Rondo was traded. How do Smart and Bradley look out there defensively when they're on the court together? You'd have to assume if the Celtics actually had a rim protector they'd be scary good on the defensive end.
 
#91 ·
Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)

I know this story will warm @R-Star to the cockles of his heart. Questions Surround Embiid's conditioning and maturity.

(It's stories like this that make me happy that Boston came out of that draft with Marcus Smart rather than some of the alternatives.)
I saw that. There's lots of time between now and next season for him to trim down and get his shit together, but it can't reassuring for the 6ers.

I think he needs to put down his Philly cheese steak and twitter and hit the gym a bit. Fat ****. 300 lbs is a bit excessive.
 
#94 ·
Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)

Elfrid Payton has had a nice stretch of late: 14/4/8 and over 2 steals per game over the last 6.

Not going to win ROY, but you can just see him getting better and gaining confidence every game. The Rondo comparisons look pretty accurate to me so far. Very crafty on both ends, can't shoot to save his life. He makes a lot of hustle plays and anticipates extremely well. High basketball IQ and very fun to watch.

There aren't many reasons to watch the Magic, but I recommend tuning in once or twice to see Elfrid.
 
#95 ·
Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)

@Diable . Are you prepared to admit you were mistaken when you said Mirotic is a better player than Wiggins this year?

Just address the comment. It's not going away. Not that big of a deal to just come right out and say you were mistaken. I once argued that Tyler Hansbrough was a quality starting 4 in this league.
 
#103 · (Edited)
Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)

Wow. The fact he just refuses to reply blows my mind.

I never understand posters thinking they can just run away long enough and then everyone will forget.

If there were a thread publicly calling me out I wouldn't be able to show my face around here. Maybe it's just me though.


Hey, remember when I said the Pacers won the George Hill Kawhi Leonard trade? Pretty dumb of me. What? I didn't instantaneously burst into flames when I admitted to saying something stupid? Weird.


Grow a set of balls @Diable. Your little coward act is pathetic.
 
#108 ·
Nikola Mirotic’s unique style rewarding Bulls for waiting on him

BOSTON – Nikola Mirotic rarely watched the NBA while growing up in Europe. Even as a promising professional player drawing American scouts, he still had only passing interest in the league.

But that changed the instant the Bulls traded up to get him with the No. 23 pick in the 2011 draft.

Mirotic, who signed a five-year contract with Real Madrid earlier that year, began watching nearly every Chicago game.

“I had to see maybe my future team,” Mirotic said. “So, I started following, and I really loved how they were playing.

“I was thinking, How can I adapt on this team? It was really important for me to imagine me on this team, and I really loved how Chicago was playing. They were a little bit playing like European, too. Team, they are sharing a lot of balls, playing plays.”

Mirotic didn’t learn his biggest lesson about the Bulls by watching them on televison, though. He ascertained it by simply waiting.

“I really saw how Chicago loved me in this time, because it was not easy to draft me,” Mirotic said, “because I signed for five years, and it was a long time that they need to wait for me.”

He’s proving he was worth the wait.

Mirotic is averaging 7.8 points and 4.6 rebounds in 18.0 minutes per game, modest numbers that don’t fully reveal his efficiency. He leads rookies with a 16.8 PER and 3.0 win shares.

In fact, Mirotic has more than double the win shares of any other rookie despite ranking just ninth in minutes among his class.

Just 11 rookies have doubled their class’s closest competitor in win shares:

  • 1990: David Robinson (SAS), 15.1 win shares
  • 1972: Clifford Ray (CHI), 8.7 win shares
  • 1970: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (MIL), 13.8 win shares
  • 1966: Rick Barry (SFW), 10.4 win shares
  • 1964: Jerry Lucas (CIN), 12.7 win shares
  • 1962: Walt Bellamy (CHP), 16.3 win shares
  • 1961: Oscar Robertson (CIN), 13.2 win shares
  • 1960: Wilt Chamberlain (PHW), 17 win shares
  • 1959: Elgin Baylor (MNL), 9.8 win shares
  • 1955: Bob Pettit (MLH), 10.7 win shares
  • 1951: Paul Arizin (PHW), 13.7 win shares

Nine of those 11 won Rookie of the Year. Ray and his 8.7 win shares lost to Sidney Wicks, who had 2.3 win shares. Arizin played before the award existed, but he claimed an unofficial unofficial retroactive version of the honor.

Yet Mirotic gets minimal Rookie of the Year support.

Andrew Wiggins is the clear front-runner (and my choice for mid-season Rookie of the Year). He fills a larger role for the Timberwolves and has fewer veterans around him, mostly excusing his volume-over-efficiency tradeoff.

But don’t dismiss how well Mirotic is handling what the Bulls ask of him .

He’s doing it in a historically unique way.

Mirotic has taken half his shots from beyond the arc, and he has attempted a free throw for every two field goals. No player has ever finished a season with a 3-point-attempt rate (3PA/FGA) and free-throw-attempt rate (FTA/FGA) both over 50 percent while playing as many as Mirotic already has.

Heck, just a few players – James Harden (2011 and 2012), Chauncey Billups (2011), Danilo Gallinari (2011), Jon Barry (1999) and Terry Dehere (1996) – have ever joined the 45%/45% club while playing regularly.

...
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/28/nikola-mirotics-unique-style-rewarding-bulls-for-waiting-on-him/

For @R-Star's viewing pleasure. :D
 
#109 ·
#111 ·
Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)

The irony of the "Wiggins is only ROY because he plays for a terrible team and Mirotic is buried on a deep team" argument is that Wiggins would probably start for Chicago. Chicago is deeper in the frontcourt than on the wings, but still. Hard to see why Wiggins wouldn't start over Hinrich/Dunleavy/Snell.
Agreed. You replace Mirotic with Wiggins on Chicago and they're without a doubt a better team. He and Jimmy Butler would be a terror defensively on the perimiter, arguably the best duo in the league. He'd help offensively as well as like you said their other option is Dunleavy, Snell, or the attempt to force Mirotic to play the 3.

People like to talk about PER, and it always makes me laugh. I wonder what each players PER would look like if Wiggins was the 3rd or arguably 4th offensive option on the Bulls rather than the #1 on the Wolves. Conversely I'd love to see what Mirotics PER would look like trying to replace Wiggins as the #1 option on the Wolves. It's not so easy to just sit out at the 3 point line when you replace Rose, Butler, Gasol, Noah and Taj with Shabazz, Thad Young, Mo Williams and... Gorgui Dieng I guess?

With the way Wiggins was playing now he had one threat, and that guys out for the rest of the year. Mirotic and ROY should never be uttered in the same sentance. RRPOY? Sure. If Rookie Role Player of the Year was an award.
 
#112 ·
Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)

I think Elfrid Payton might turn out to be one of the best players from this draft class. He struggled early in the season but the last 10 games or so he seems to have turned the corner. If only Orlando would stop wasting money on guys like Channing Frye and Ben Gordon I think they have a really nice young core moving forward. Oladipo/Payton has the potential to be one of the best defensive backcourts in the league and Vucevic is already the best or 2nd best center in the East in my opinion.
 
#114 ·
Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)

I love advanced stats just as much as the next geek, but Mirotic over Wiggins is a joke. I would argue that Wiggins might be better than Jabari at this point in the season even if he hadn't gotten hurt and had continued to play like he was early this season.

In Jabari's 25 games this season, he was basically a 21.4/9.6/2.9/2.2/0.3 guy per 100 possessions with 3.3 TOs and 49/70/25 shooting percentages. PER = 14.6

In Wiggins' last 25 games, he has been getting 25.2/6.8/3.1/1.6/1.0 per 100 with only 2.7 TOs and 45/75/33 percentages. PER = 17.2

And this is comparing 2 starters who are essentially the best offensive player on their respective teams.
 
#119 ·
Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)

I love advanced stats just as much as the next geek, but Mirotic over Wiggins is a joke. I would argue that Wiggins might be better than Jabari at this point in the season even if he hadn't gotten hurt and had continued to play like he was early this season.

In Jabari's 25 games this season, he was basically a 21.4/9.6/2.9/2.2/0.3 guy per 100 possessions with 3.3 TOs and 49/70/25 shooting percentages. PER = 14.6

In Wiggins' last 25 games, he has been getting 25.2/6.8/3.1/1.6/1.0 per 100 with only 2.7 TOs and 45/75/33 percentages. PER = 17.2

And this is comparing 2 starters who are essentially the best offensive player on their respective teams.
I would have loved to see what Jabari evolved into as the year progressed. I think he, like Wiggins, would have gradually improved each month. They both started kind of slow, but if Wiggins growth is any indication of what Parker would have done, they both would have finished with really good rookie seasons. I hope Parker's injury doesn't set him back too much.
 
#117 ·
Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)

Wiggins averaged 20 a game on 47% from the field and 34% from 3 in the month of January. Kid's potential is scary.
I think it's a great sign that he went off against Cleveland. I'm starting to think maybe we were all wrong that he doesn't have that cold blooded streak in him. Kid looks like he could turn into a franchise guy.
 
#118 ·
Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)

Looks like Diable found his new Harden/Kobe or Maynor over Westbrook embarrassment. Poor guy loves PER too much.
 
#121 ·
Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)

Mitch McGary's stats Per36 this year (and he plays 15 minutes per game)
17.4ppg, 11.7rpg

Suck it Mirotic.
That says nothing, what's his PER?
 
#125 ·
Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)

Hey @RollWithEm, has your boy Simmons already backtracked off his stupid comments on who deserves the ROY?
 
#131 ·
Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)

Hey @RollWithEm, has your boy Simmons already backtracked off his stupid comments on who deserves the ROY?
Not yet (as far as I know).

I'm already on record with my feelings on Elfrid. Totally over-rated prospect and player.
 
#130 ·
Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)

I wish @Diable would come back into this thread instead of just pretending it doesn't exist.
Yeah? And is Adam going to bump the "no league for old men" thread?
 
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