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Old 04-15-2004, 04:02 PM   #91 (permalink)
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Originally posted by <b>kcchiefs-fan</b>!


I'm not saying there isn't a discrepency between physical specimens today and physical specimens from 40 years ago. However, you isolated a VERY small part of the page and used it to feed your side of the argument, when in actuality it really isn't a profound discovery. Do you really think somebody 6'6'' and 230 lbs. of solid muscle couldn't be considered a physical specimen in today's NBA?

Once again you assume that something's untrue just become you personally don't find it feasible. You know what I don't find feasible? Somebody lying about his toe being broken by somebody else's dunk. I could see an exaggeration but at the very least I'm sure his toe was awfully damn sore.

Let's face it, some of the stories about Wilt are untrue. For instance, there's no way in hell he had a 50 in. vertical. But eye witness accounts by rival NBA legends, coaches, GM's, etc. usually have a bit of validity.

This is being dragged out too far. You're looking for statistical facts to prove Wilt was the athlete that he was, which we simply aren't going to find (and if we did, you'd probably find some flaw in that as well, making it moot). Your opinion differs from mine, which is perfectly okay. However, the sarcastic remark "I bet some people still think Wilt > MJ too" is, quite simply, disrespectful to many people (for a few examples......Larry Bird, Jerry West, and Oscar Robertson) who feel Wilt is the greatest player who ever lived. Is he better than MJ? Not neccesarily. Is MJ better than Wilt? Not neccesarily. There's an argument to be made for both of them as the greatest ever (as well as Oscar), but your snide remark is a bit uncalled for, IMO.
you know how all of this started? it was a big argument between who was stronger, shaq or wilt. i'm sure wilt was an extremely strong man, but i have a hard time believing he was stronger than shaq. a younger shaq, at least.

that's pretty much all i'm trying to say.
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Old 04-15-2004, 04:12 PM   #92 (permalink)
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Originally posted by <b>spriggan9</b>!


you know how all of this started? it was a big argument between who was stronger, shaq or wilt. i'm sure wilt was an extremely strong man, but i have a hard time believing he was stronger than shaq. a younger shaq, at least.

that's pretty much all i'm trying to say.
I'd beg to differ. However, we've already gone over everything there is to go over, and there's no way to prove either of our sides to be 100% correct. Thus, this debate should probably coast to a close, IMO.
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Old 04-15-2004, 04:31 PM   #93 (permalink)
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Originally posted by <b>kcchiefs-fan</b>!


I'd beg to differ. However, we've already gone over everything there is to go over, and there's no way to prove either of our sides to be 100% correct. Thus, this debate should probably coast to a close, IMO.
agreed.
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Old 04-15-2004, 07:55 PM   #94 (permalink)
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Younger Shaq got absolutely worked by Hakeem Olajuwon. I mean ... worked Watch Shaq against Yao now - true big men still give him some problems. How many teams in todays NBA start a true center? Maybe ... 8? Might even be less, depends on who you qualify as a "true" center. There's no more real centers today than in Wilt's time, they both spent most of their careers dunking on 6' 9" guys who were hopelessly outmatched.

Part of Shaq's legend has been built because there are very few true centers in the league today, the golden age of NBA centers (Jabbar and Walton all the way to Ewing and Olajawon and Mutombo) was actually between Wilt and Shaq - who both played in eras in which they physically dominated smaller oponents.

The man was an absolute freak of nature though, and yes - he really did have Vince Carter quality hops (do you realise what high jumping 6' 6-3/4" with the technique of those days meant?), watch some film of him if you can find it, it's unbelievable. I don't think he's the greatest player ever, but he very possibly was the greatest athlete to ever play basketball.
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Old 04-15-2004, 08:27 PM   #95 (permalink)
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Originally posted by <b>kflo</b>!


if lebron was around in the 60s he would likely not be 6'8 240. he's a product of his times, as were athletes back in the 60s. lebron in '60 would be much skinnier, but relative to his peers he'd stand out, like he does today. wilt today wouldn't be 7'1 280, he'd be much larger, given that he had the work ethic to live in the gym and take supplements like todays freaks do. we just don't make people bigger & stronger today, they work at it - just like many of the athletes of yesterday would today. again, a superfreak of yesterday would likely be a superfreak today.
If hes just a product of his generation howcome nobody else is like him?
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Old 04-15-2004, 10:55 PM   #96 (permalink)
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Wilt DIDN'T have Vince Carter hops. Get that through your head. Vince can get his head at rim level, and Wilt has never done that. There are no videos or pictures of him doing anything close to that. He was a great athlete because of speed and strength, but you're kidding yourself if he had Carter-like hops. If he did, where's the proof? There's a difference between the high jump and a vertical leap.
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Old 04-15-2004, 11:29 PM   #97 (permalink)
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Re: Wilt Today

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Originally posted by <b>theo4002</b>!
What do u rekon his stats would of been like if he played today, better than Shaq
I haven't read any of the responses so I apologize if any of what I say is repeated.

Many people forget what type of athlete Wilt was. He was an elite track and field performer and volleyball player. It is said that Wilt could consistently snatch a quarter off the backboard and bench over 450-500 pounds.

Is Shaq better than Wilt? I don't think so. Wilt has more moves and is equally as aggressive. Many people forget that Wilt played over 300 pounds late in his career with the Lakers where he sacrificed much of his offensive stats for the team.

If Shaq could get 29.7 ppg, 13.6 rpg in his best season today I reckon Wilt could get 31-33 ppg, 15-17 rpg, 3-5 bpg today. It's mere speculation but people don't give Wilt enough credit. Here is a giant who played basically 48 MPG while travelling on buses to cities with no weight conditioning programs OR technological advances in sports medicine, training and gameplay. Could you imagine how much stronger Wilt would be today with the conditioning programs implemented by every team now? or How much he would be better with all the game tapes and scouting reports players have now? People often never take these advances into consideration and that is why comparing players of different eras is very difficult.

Wilt was exceptional and I have no reason to believe that he wouldn't be so in today's game even with all variables held constant.
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Old 04-16-2004, 12:43 AM   #98 (permalink)
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Re: Re: Wilt Today

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Originally posted by <b>Bball_Doctor</b>!


I haven't read any of the responses so I apologize if any of what I say is repeated.

Many people forget what type of athlete Wilt was. He was an elite track and field performer and volleyball player. It is said that Wilt could consistently snatch a quarter off the backboard and bench over 450-500 pounds.

Is Shaq better than Wilt? I don't think so. Wilt has more moves and is equally as aggressive. Many people forget that Wilt played over 300 pounds late in his career with the Lakers where he sacrificed much of his offensive stats for the team.

If Shaq could get 29.7 ppg, 13.6 rpg in his best season today I reckon Wilt could get 31-33 ppg, 15-17 rpg, 3-5 bpg today. It's mere speculation but people don't give Wilt enough credit. Here is a giant who played basically 48 MPG while travelling on buses to cities with no weight conditioning programs OR technological advances in sports medicine, training and gameplay. Could you imagine how much stronger Wilt would be today with the conditioning programs implemented by every team now? or How much he would be better with all the game tapes and scouting reports players have now? People often never take these advances into consideration and that is why comparing players of different eras is very difficult.

Wilt was exceptional and I have no reason to believe that he wouldn't be so in today's game even with all variables held constant.
I completely agree, the #s you gave were basically what I said, my stat line for Wilt in today's game was 33/16/5 and 5 assists to boot. He was incredible back then and would be incredible now.
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Old 04-16-2004, 01:09 AM   #99 (permalink)
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Come on people give Wilt some props! I'm not one that believes in all the stories surrounding wilt. But I do believe he would of been dominate in todays game. But better than shaq ? hmm I dont know about that I do think they would be formidable foes to each other. And if you don't think so than essentially you say that Yao Ming is better than Wilt Chamberlain since Yao is the only center in recent memory that has won the one on one match up between Shaq and Yao and Yao is only in his second year not to shabby. Wilt Chamberlain might even be a little better than Shaq for an over all talent. But I think Shaq is more powerful. But again I point to at what Yao was able to accomplish against Shaq in only his second season. You got to think that Wilt Chamberlain could also do that in his prime.
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Old 04-16-2004, 04:33 AM   #100 (permalink)
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Originally posted by <b>vadimivich</b>!
Part of Shaq's legend has been built because there are very few true centers in the league today, the golden age of NBA centers (Jabbar and Walton all the way to Ewing and Olajawon and Mutombo) was actually between Wilt and Shaq - who both played in eras in which they physically dominated smaller oponents.
Wrong. In Shaq's early years, the league was full of elite centers, probably more than in every other area of basketball. Although Shaq was young, raw and unexperiecend, he as good as any of them. Don't tell me Hakeem "worked" on Shaq. This matchup wasn't like Jordan-Drexler in '92, it was like Erving-Bird in '82. The Magic would have won this Finals series if they've had some clutch players.
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Old 04-16-2004, 05:11 AM   #101 (permalink)
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Look, if a girl owned me in a streetball park, and the whole world found out by way of radio or mouth even. I'd tell everyone, damn, it wasn't humiliating because that girl is a freak! She was so strong that when she dunked the ball it hit my foot and broke my toe!

Ok, I feel better now, since you people have seen how much of an athletic freak that girl is... I'm respectable again because I didn't lose to a girl, I lost to a physical specimen and a freak.
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Old 04-16-2004, 09:17 AM   #102 (permalink)
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Originally posted by <b>TyGuy</b>!
If hes just a product of his generation howcome nobody else is like him?
he is relatively freakish for his generation. put him in another generation, and he'll likely still be freakish, but he wouldn't be the same person / athlete he is today. same with wilt. there was noone like him then, there'd be noone truly like him today.

if lebron was 18 in 1960, do you think he'd look like he does today?
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Old 04-16-2004, 12:52 PM   #103 (permalink)
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Originally posted by <b>gian</b>!
I mean, Hakeem would've owned him...
Hakeem would of owned any center
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Old 04-16-2004, 12:54 PM   #104 (permalink)
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Originally posted by <b>bender</b>!

Wrong. In Shaq's early years, the league was full of elite centers, probably more than in every other area of basketball. Although Shaq was young, raw and unexperiecend, he as good as any of them. Don't tell me Hakeem "worked" on Shaq. This matchup wasn't like Jordan-Drexler in '92, it was like Erving-Bird in '82. The Magic would have won this Finals series if they've had some clutch players.
Excuses..da dream worked shaq..so bad that shaq said he wanted to be like the dream...it was more like jordan vs marleje
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Old 04-16-2004, 12:55 PM   #105 (permalink)
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Hakeem would of owned any center
I think Hakeem and Wilt are the 2 greatest centers, they would've had battles, neither would be able to stop each other. I think they both have similiar talents, meaning they were both unusually agile for people their height. Wilt would have the strength advantage and the Dream would have the better post moves.
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