jericho

Larry Nance mostly played SF, didn't he? John "Hot Rod" Williams was the power forward for those Cleveland playoff teams.

lw32

Nance was all over the place. He played SF, PF and C. I seem to recall he was mainly a SF/PF, in the modern game like a Kirilenko. I don't remember his stint at C, but low and behold he played there.

Anyways, here's a link to a blurb about Larry Nance which lists him as a PF. I'm not sure if I'd actually have him on the list, I was more hopeful of creating discussion about Nance, and mainly directing the thread a little away from a KG/Duncan debate. Definitely a top player back in his day.

http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/history/larry_nance.html

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lw32

Exactly why Rodman isn't in my top 10. To me his deficiencies on the offensive end even out his defensive abilities. Most of these guys were good to great defenders anyways, but all the others could score.

People might compare Rodman's situation to Russell's, but Russell had more offensive production and was far more intimidating on the defensive end. Not to mention a better defender and rebounder.

To me Rodman's a bit overrated because of his eccentric personality and flamboyant lifestyle. Based on pure basketball skills he was a great defender, but he wouldn't be on this list if it weren't for the constant media attention he received. I don't consider Rodman a top 10 PF.

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Charles Barkley: "I think it would have been an insult if they put Bird on me. He was the worst defensive player ever."

"Stanley's idea of a balanced meal is a Big Mac in each hand" -- then Orlando Magic GM Pat Williams on overweight Magic first round draft choice Stanley Roberts

Hoopla

Agreed. I didn't even think about Rodman.

Incredible rebounder, but his lack of offense and overrated defense make him far too flawed to be considered for a list like this. His help defense never stood out. He was a great on ball defender in his Detroit days, but I would hardly call this area great when he was with the Bulls. And his ability to get in opponent's heads is one of the more overstated myths floating around. I think kflo said it well - "Rodman lost his head much more than he got into other people's heads".

In comparing the two Bulls' three-peat teams, I think Horace Grant was a better player.

jericho

Fair enough. His rebounding numbers were good for a PF, and quite good for a SF. No Shawn Marion, but he pulled his weight. He really excelled as a shot-blocker, and was a fun player to watch. I think he put in some minutes at the 4 spot, but generally spent the season as his team's starter at SF, and generally pulled down at least as many rebounds as the PF (Maurice Lucas in Philly, Hot Rod in Cleveland).

While Nance was certainly one of the better players at his position during his time, I don't think he was ever really considered one of the best players of his time period. Never spoken of as an all-time great.

jericho

Grant was a very different player. It's a tough comparison, but I wouldn't say Horace had a bigger impact on the game or was more important to his team.

Rodman, at his best, was a nutjob who was an Artest-like defender and was arguably the best rebounder, pound-for-pound, in the history of the game. Warts and all, he was very effective at the aspects of the game he cared about and focused on.

I can understand people, for a variety of valid reasons, putting any of the other great PFs ahead of him, but I think some folks in this thread never knew or have forgotten what an impact Rodman could have. And call it a myth if you want, but I absolutely watched Rodman get in the heads of opposing players. The good ones he could shut down. The great ones, like Karl Malone, he would just irritate the hell out of.

Pioneer10

Is Tim Duncan really a PF? He has the height of a center, weight of a center, lenght of a center and plays like a center.

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Pioneer10

Nance played PF for those team. Hot Rod came off the bench to play both the reserve PF and C minutes

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Hoopla

I would take Grant without thinking twice. He was a very good defender, a solid rebounder, and his offense wasn't so putrid that it relegated his team to playing 4 on 5.

As a Bull, he was never on the level of Artest as a defender.

I saw Rodman play and I think he has become one of the more overrated players of all-time, largely due to his eccentric style and the superior quality of his teamates which enabled him to get rings. As for impact, he had the potential to have a negative one on his team much more than the players being discussed in this thread.

I'm not denying that he could get under the skin of opponents. But a few technicals that he drew against Karl Malone have created this illusion that he was some type of psychological mastermind who always had his opponents mentally defeated. He wasn't. And since his teams went on to win titles, it is forgotten that his antics would also result in him riding the bench and often cost his team.

Defensively, Rodman routinely shut down players as a Piston, not as a Bull. Just ask Shawn Kemp. And unlike defenders such as Mutombo, Olajuwon, Robinson, and Pippen, Rodman never had much of a defensive impact on anyone but his man.

Gilgamesh

#1 Karl Malone
#2 Tim Duncan
#3 Bob Petit
#4 Charles Barkley
#5 KG

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